Common sense

No one who is honest would deny that there are one or two here who have managed to forget the common courtesies of life, and have with little provocation been contentious, rude and arrogant.

Others, using buffoonery and mockery, delight in pissing contests for their own sake, creating havoc and disruption..
There is a corner that all concerned can take it, into Hell; but it seems that some, not finding enough sport there, still prowl the forums, I think not for long, though.

I personally believe that common sense and calmness will prevail. There are those who are dancing around the line in the sand, I really believe you will never see that line if you remain positive, helpful and kind.

Be kind.
Be helpful.

If you are faultless and the new system, with glitches still not ironed out, does something you feel unwarranted, sent a calm explanatory note to Webslave or one of the mods. I am as sure. as sure can be, that if a polite note is sent, a response and explanation will be returned.

This being said, the vast majority of people here ARE kind, helpful, and have common sense when faced with new challenges and ideas.
For those people, I thank you. I want Fauna to be a community, and only be showing courtesy and respect for each other, and especially for those who made this site possible, will we have a community that will endure.

Common sense.
Respect.
Kindness.

Just do it.

No one who is honest would deny that there are one or two here who have managed to forget the common courtesies of life,

There are certainly more than one or two.

and have with little provocation been contentious, rude and arrogant.

Agreed...but I bet if you asked 20 random people to list whom they most frequently connect to those behaviors, you wouldn't get a consistent list.

It is extremely difficult for one to type on a forum and have their intention clearly represented. Therefore, there will always be opinions as to WHO is easily contentious, rude, and arrogant; certainly it will be just as difficult to gain a consensus on individual posts.

Throw into the mix the fact that some forums, and certainly some threads, don't call for kind hospitality. I've read posts that have blatantly identified others as liars, cheats, scammers, and scum....and those words were accurate, if not kind or helpful.

Yes, common sense plays a big part, but that too will vary from person to person. Whose perception is correct? Whose opinion is valid? Which words are deserved, and which are attacking?

This being said, the vast majority of people here ARE kind, helpful, and have common sense when faced with new challenges and ideas.
For those people, I thank you. I want Fauna to be a community, and only be showing courtesy and respect for each other, and especially for those who made this site possible, will we have a community that will endure.

I don't think Fauna Meets Mr. Rogers Neighborhood is going to be financially successful. Nor will Fauna Death Match. A completely "sterile" Fauna will be decried as violating everyone's right to an opinion, and the consequences of that aren't very pretty. (There are several of those shiny happy groups on MSN and Yahoo and AOL, and they're....useless.)

What type of community you want Fauna to be is completely and wholly irrelevant. What matters is what Rich wants, and that is being discussed in another thread. Heck, I think even Rich is trying to find a balance between a site that has some bite left to it for the scammers, offers a friendly environment for newbies and casual hobbyists, and still manages to support itself or (dare he hope) even make a buck or two. God bless him!

Originally Posted by ms_terese

I don't think Fauna Meets Mr. Rogers Neighborhood is going to be financially successful. Nor will Fauna Death Match. A completely "sterile" Fauna will be decried as violating everyone's right to an opinion, and the consequences of that aren't very pretty. (There are several of those shiny happy groups on MSN and Yahoo and AOL, and they're....useless.)

Everyone will still have the privilege of stating their opinions here on just about everything. The only difference I want to see is HOW those opinions are expressed. No one can honestly deny that it has just gotten far too carried away. Not sure how many will agree that it has to stop, because certainly some people just enjoy watching the drama and keyboard combats that take place. Those are not going to end, simply because I don't see how they can. The best I can hope to accomplish is to dull the swords a bit that the combatants are using against each other.

I just have a real problem understanding why anyone cannot get their point across without profanity, name calling, derogatory garbage, or just plain antagonistic attacks on another. It is going to be those people who REQUIRE such things in their language who are going to be affected the most by the changes in enforcement here from myself and the moderators.

Those who think just because it has always been a certain atmosphere here that it always has to remain that way are going to be the ones who wind up in trouble on this site. I don't care what you USED to get away with in the past, as it has no bearing whatsoever as to what will be allowed here in the future. Maybe it is just time for this site to mature into something better then it has been.

The BOI will never be a friendly Mr. Rogers place. Nor do I think there is any way to make it that way. But changes ARE needed, and changes ARE going to happen regardless of what a few people may think and hope for. Obviously I am going to have to come up with a dual set of rules, which is going to be a real pain in the butt, but I can't see any way to do it otherwise. The BOI is different from the rest of this site. And I have to make certain that I keep that in mind when I am drafting the rules and guidelines that will be enforced. It is just a complication that I see as unavoidable because of the way people just are.

Instead of a blunted sword could I have a bow and a quarter staff? I'm pretty sure I can round up some good arrows.

Seriously though Rich, just do what you're going to do. It doesn't matter whether or not ANYONE agrees with you, much less that elusive majority that lurks about the place.

If you want to be the king then act like the KING.

I just have a real problem understanding why anyone cannot get their point across without profanity, name calling, derogatory garbage, or just plain antagonistic attacks on another.

That's a little more easily defined than "contentious, rude, and arrogant".

My point to Lucille was that HER interpretation of what the site needed to be was not necessarily MY interpretation, or MEMBER X's interpretation, and was completely irrelevant because YOUR interpretation and decisions are the only ones that matter.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Rich. When these issues have come up in the past (the various items that all relate to how this site is run), I've given my opinion when you've opened the floor for them, and that was that.

I want Fauna to be a community, and only be showing courtesy and respect for each other, and especially for those who made this site possible, will we have a community that will endure.

Common sense.
Respect.
Kindness.

Just do it.

My point is that "only showing courtesy and respect" will not necessarily lead to a "community that will endure". I'm just disagreeing with the opinion that becoming a huge group of shiny happy people is going to result in some Fauna Shangri-La.

Do what you have to do. Ask for opinions if you want them, but that doesn't mean you have to justify the choices you ultimately make. You'll never get 5 people to agree completely to anything, let alone 13,000.

I don't envy your job, Rich. Considering that I've not seen anyone, even those who have so vehemently disagreed with your management of this site, run out and try to reinvent the wheel, I don't think many other people envy your job either.

Originally Posted by Wilomn

If you want to be the king then act like the KING.

Very well said, there comes a time when you have to do things like that.


This is the WORLD WIDE WEB not Home town web where you have to see and deal with these people face to face, if you want to make the rules to clean up something that you feel is inappropriate, then make the rule. There will be those who follow it and those who don't, those who don't get the adverse effects.

The government makes laws no matter what country you are in and you either follow them or you don't. If you choose not to the you face the punishment for not doing so.

Same applies here.

My only thought on this is that I hope that we can still call a thief a thief. If you lie, then it's ok to state out right that XYZ member is a liar, or a cheat, or a.....???

I completely understand the profanity and there is no excuse for that. But there are going to simply be times where nothing but a trip to the woodshed and a good yelling at is in order. If someone truly thinks I am a liar or a cheat etc then I would much rather they call it what it is then to beat around the bush and make me guess.

Griz

Originally Posted by dutchoven

If someone truly thinks I am a liar or a cheat etc then I would much rather they call it what it is then to beat around the bush and make me guess.

Griz

Good luck on that one. Only the craven resort to the smearing of those who hold true to standards and principles. They deserve no respect and should be treated as is appropiate, ie a swift kick in the nethers and a heave ho through the door. If you forget to open it first, that's ok.

However, those who snivel and whimper as a way of life are now wringing their pudgy little paws in anticipation of a free for all in which their parts will never be known, the posts reported the whispers and pms back and forth, the secret meetings. Gadzooks what a colossal waste.

Still no angolans huh Griz?

Originally Posted by dutchoven

My only thought on this is that I hope that we can still call a thief a thief. If you lie, then it's ok to state out right that XYZ member is a liar, or a cheat, or a.....???

I completely understand the profanity and there is no excuse for that. But there are going to simply be times where nothing but a trip to the woodshed and a good yelling at is in order. If someone truly thinks I am a liar or a cheat etc then I would much rather they call it what it is then to beat around the bush and make me guess.

Griz

Yes, that will still be appropriate. Where the line will be drawn is when someone calls someone something that is just basically derogatory. "Scumbag", "idiot", "assclown", "jackass", and "jerkoff" (among a LOT of others) will be the type of name calling that is going to earn the poster warning points with a fine attached. And no, I am not going to even attempt to produce a comprehensive list of verboten names and terms, just so someone can find one I missed and use it. It this sort of case, it is the thought that counts. The utility of the BOI will not be diminished in the slightest if the derogatory crap is just completely removed.

In my classroom I tell my students that I will not tolerate profanity, and of course their avaricious response is "like what?" ... wanting me to say the words I won't allow. I tell them: "If it's a bad word, or a euphamism for a bad word or a euphamism for a bodily function, if it has to do with violence or if it puts someone down, then it is bad. If you have to ask, it's bad."