STEEL CITY REPTILE EXPO! September 12, 2009! - Page 12 - FaunaClassifieds
  Inside FaunaClassifieds » Photo Gallery  

Go Back   FaunaClassifieds > Reptile & Amphibian - Business Forums > Shows & Events


Shows & Events Since these are such a big part of our business, it is appropriate that we discuss them from a business perspective.

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-30-2009, 06:16 PM   #111
I need to take a moment to address these statements made by Debbie & John Smith.

I also want to apologize to potential readers because this is going to be a long response.

Debbie & John: On the first occasion, I never had a standing order with you, so you weren’t taking care of my rats, you were doing what rodent breeders do. You were taking care of your rodents.

On the second occasion, I did say that I would need 100 live rats every Friday. And I fulfilled my obligation as buyer for 8-9 weeks until you started saying that you didn’t have enough rats for me and that was it. You told me this same thing for over a month. You left me without rats for 5 weeks with no answers as to why so I had to find someone else.

As you can probably see in her post, Debbie & John leave a lot to be desired in the communication department.

When Debbie & I talked about the show, I told her what I told every vendor that I solicited: “No one is considered registered until their application and table fee was received.”

We wanted this show to be risk-free to vendors by refunding all table fees to them. We also asked for pre-payment & applications to ensure that all vendors would appear at the show. We’ve all been to shows that have empty tables from “no-shows”. We felt that this sent a bad message to attendees and we didn’t want to have it.

Even if Debbie verbally committed (which she didn’t), I would not have considered that as confirmation and I made that clear to all vendors that I solicited.

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
The Mars show has Vince as the exclusive frozen dealer and is barely worth us going but it's like 5 miles away.

I never said you couldn’t sell at the show. Is the Mars show responsible for your business failure also?

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
I needed all the cash I had to feed the animals. With over 1000 rats in your basement, you better not run out of feed.

If a $65 table fee was going to starve your rodents for the week, I think your business plan needs to be revised.

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
So, why all of this whining and "hurt feelings." Well, we met Paul through Brad (who was our 'only' friend who encouraged us to breed rats) and raised rats for Paul on 2 different occasions. The first time, we were just getting started and we trusted our 'best-friend' Brad on what would be a fair price. $1.15 for small-live rats 'every week'. Smalls turned into mediums (a week of extra work & feed) and 'every week' turned into every 2 weeks (more work & feed just to freeze fhem.) It then turned into a 5 week strecth of Paul not showing up, leaving us feeding and caging his 100 rats until they were the size of Rodent Pros mediums. I had to finally end it when we were taking money from my paycheck to feed Pauls animals and we were almost broke. The second time Paul was in some kind of a bind. We were better breeders (given lots of inside tips from 20 year rat breeders), and most of all, we had new (to us) lab racks (that Brad got for us) to breed them in. We wanted badly to be Pauls rat guys.

I don’t even know why this is here. I bought rats from Debbie & John at THEIR VARYING ASKING PRICES. They were supplying a product to me. Prior to my purchasing animals from them, when they called EVERY WEEK to ask me to buy rats from them I told them that I was a busy person. Although I never had a standing order with you on the first occasion, you obviously wanted/needed me as a customer.

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
Paul showed faithfully for his rats this time, but the price, again, proved to be a back breaker for a small time (200 breeding females) rat breeder.

How is this my problem? I paid you exactly what you asked for. How am I the bad guy? You NEVER talked to me about price.

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
Both times almost killed us financially. Both times we had to stop the arrangement. Both times Paul (and Brad) degraded us as though we had no idea what we were talking about or how to breed rats. I'm sorry, but (good rule of thumb, everything before "but" is B. S.) we would never...tell Mr. Brachman how to breed gecko's...tell Jim how to breed Boa's...tell Porkchop how to breed frogs or ever tell Paul how to breed high dollar ball pythons (that we almost lost everything to feed!)

Once again, maybe you should have restructured your pricing or revised your business plan.

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
So, in the end, Paul (and in my mind, Brad as well) totally threw us under the bus for Rodent Pro and their 35,000 e-mail list. Given the fact that Rodent Pro is the worlds largest rodent dealer, how many of those 35,000 do you suppose are able to show up in south-western Pa.? So much for helping the little guy that's local to our area! We have heard many customers tell us that they prefer our rats over Rodent Pro or Vince because of the quality and price! To them, we say, from the bottom of our hearts, "Thank You!" We did not buy our frozen rats (like Vince) (it's much easier to buy and sell), we bred them with devotion. We bought our frozen mice from Rodent Pro. Just the other day, Brad said to me (he has since also started breeding rats) "I don't see why you can't get $1.50 for a live small rat." How much then should a live medium rat go for when 'every week' is more like every 2 weeks or more? Just for reference, Rodent Pro normally sells frozen medium rats for $1.39, and on super sale, they sell for $1.19 (without shipping...frozen) At Brads discretion, we were trying to sell Paul 'live' medium rats for $1.15 (our frozen medium rats sold everyday for $1.25.) Whatever happened to the advice of my good friend "They are always worth more alive than they are frozen." Some friends huh? But then again, I know they see it more as "'Who can do more for me right now?"

Once again sounds like a pricing restructure needed to be done. I paid you exactly what you asked for.

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
And to Paul...we did not make the decision to kill our top quality breeder rats and sell all of our reptiles and cages over "hurt feelings," or just "throwing in the towel." I gave you my word, I'd be at your show, I have always kept my word to you in the past. But I guess I shouldn't have been surprised that you didn't keep yours to us, it's not like it's the first time.

As I told every solicited vendor, “You are not considered registered for the show until we receive your vendor application and table fees.” Regardless, Debbie NEVER verbally committed to the show.

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
I am reminded of something my father told me years ago, "you can always judge a mans character by how they treat someone who can do nothing for them."

And now you are questioning my character? Please, anyone reading this do me a favor before condemning my character based on Debbie’s words; Please search the BOI for my past actions in this hobby over many years.

As I said in my original post, Ben & I both struggled with the issue of “exclusives”. Due to business circumstances we felt that it was in our best interest to allow Rodent Pro to be exclusive for frozen rodents at this time.

Originally Posted by Home-Grown View Post
There is a lot of work for 2 people to organize the breeding schedules of 200 females and deal with all of the poop of well over 1,000 live rats (5 large Rubbermaid totes every week!) Do we even have to discuss the smell! [b]It simply wasn't worth a little pocket money.[/B} Your great new show would have finally been a huge reward for us, but you went ahead and shit on us again anyway.

We made this decision because we got tired of the two biggest names in this industry, in this area (one of them, I really thought of as a true friend) sticking their males appendages into our backsides!

You’ve been breeding rodents in your home for over 3 years. I tried doing this one time and the smell was overwhelming. There’s no doubt you’ve made some sacrifices in trying to get your business off the ground.

I announced the show two months ago. It sounds like your business was failing miserably long before the announcement of our show.

I am a little confused as to why you would feel wronged by Brad in any way. He has nothing to do with our show and knew nothing of the exclusive with Rodent Pro until it was on our website. As far as I can see, he has helped you numerous times over the years.

The fact that you feel that you have been wronged by Brad is purely INSANE.

When I talked with you about Rodent Pro’s exclusive at our show, I tried to explain that you are more than welcome to sell live rodents just not frozen. Unfortunately, you hung up the phone on me before I could finish.

In your last post, you admitted to attending the Mars show regularly where it also has an exclusive frozen rodent agreement with Vince Clemens.

I’ve never heard you condemn any other show promoters. Why is it that our show ruined your business?

Originally Posted by KelliH View Post
Yes the promoters certainly did lie to you and throw you under the bus. Big deal that Rodent Pro is going to send emails out to their national customer list. How many of those customers will attend this little show? Also Rodent Pro sounds to me like insecure babies that can't deal with a little healthy competition.


I have a question for you.

You don’t know the situation. How can you condemn me as a liar with the information provided?

I never lied about anything. There was a small change in the policy of my business.

I can’t speak about Rodent Pro’s policies regarding exclusivity. They didn’t become the World’s largest supplier of rodents by having a flawed business plan.

I am a father of five great kids. I have a job. I have many animals to clean and feed and I am promoting a new show. I don’t have hours and hours to sit down here to defend my character against claims with ZERO merit.

Paul Wyble
Steel City Reptile Expo Ltd.
Old 08-30-2009, 08:21 PM   #112
Hey There,

My apologies if the previous comments made by others in this thread were incorrect. I was basing my comments on what had been posted here, and that is all. From what had been stated previously, it was indicated that you would not be taking part in the exclusive vendor deal in your show. It was stated more than once by more than one poster, so I figured those people had heard these promises from you. I can completely understand changing policies etc., and if that's what you did it's your business. The way I understood it was that you had made the change after you had already assured some that it wouldn't be the case. If I was mistaken then again, my apologies. I was simply commenting on words that had been posted in this thread prior to my post. Best of luck with your show, and if I lived in your neck of the woods I would most certainly be a paying attendee.
Old 08-30-2009, 09:36 PM   #113
Speaking of top quality melamine and PVC racks and enclosures,


Tell me I'm the only one who has asked Mark why he isn't called the Cagemaster or the Rackmaster.

To place an order with Boamaster and save on shipping by picking up at the show, contact Mark Venhorst at 1-540-529-0976.

Imagine FREE SHIPPING of your rack/enclosure.

I feel like one of the misfit toys who got a present.
Old 08-30-2009, 09:42 PM   #114
Randolph's Redtail's
You do kinda remind me of the charlie in the box !
Old 08-30-2009, 10:26 PM   #115
Mike Shaffer Reptiles
Originally Posted by Randolph's Redtail's View Post
You do kinda remind me of the charlie in the box !
Old 08-31-2009, 06:38 AM   #116
46 Vendors.

I am not doing to shabby at this counting thing.
Old 08-31-2009, 10:58 AM   #117
I am not just a misfit.
I am not just a nit wit.
Can't you see how my snake grows?
Why don't I fit in?

Way to count Kristy!!
Old 08-31-2009, 12:58 PM   #118
This is my last response to Paul. It is Debbie this time. I would like to have this all over & done with but I would like to defend my hubby John and myself first.
First of all, nothing but lies from Paul. We have records showing your first standing order starting in March of 2007 thru August 2007 for 60-65 live small rats & 20-25 live pups weekly. I have records of that. In fact you even supplied the receipt book paul. I have never asked any one to buy my rats. You said I called you every week for you to buy my rats. That is a lie. You approached me at the Cheswick show in Feb. 2007 asking me about buying live rats from us on a weekly basis. It started March 14, 2007. The only time I would call you is when you didnt show up for the rats you said you wanted for several weeks. We have alot of weekly & monthly customers we supply rodents to. When someone asks for this many, this often, we supply that. When we keep our end of the bargain & you dont call or show, then that becomes a problem. You being an ass is not my problem. You see, I have had a very successful business I have owned & operated for alittle over 15 years now. Not related to the reptile industry. We have had alot of experience running a small business with great success. We are not a bunch of idiots like you would like to have people believe. We keep all business records & had a good plan for the breeding of rats. We didnt take out any business loans or scammed anyone to make it all happen. We took from our pockets and worked our asses off to make it work. But you see it takes time to acheive all the goals you set out to acheive and when you have doors closing not allowing to sell frozen rodents & the frozen rodents are a big portion of your sales, it matters. Then where do you go. Our business didnt fail. We just cant see investing more hard work, time & money into something that keeps hitting brick walls. I dont know anyone that starts a business & says their happy only making alittle money & it only going so far. Like I said, my business has been very successful for 15 years. The only bad decision that we have made with the rodent breeding is by letting paul become a customer of ours. Our prices have never varied by the way. Paul paid $1.15 for the live smalls always. We tried to explain that we had to start upping the price to $1.50 but he did nothing but boo hoo about it & that is when the first time around ended. Second time around was for 10 weeks instead of the 6 weeks that he asked me for on the phone & we gave them to him at $1.15. Its another lie you saying we varied your price. I dont want any bullshit being said about John & I. We have worked very hard & been totally honest with everyone that has bought off us. Paul you are a liar on many things. I dont like to start things but I will defend the truth & what we do. To all the great people that have dealt with us, We say a very warm thank you. It isnt at all that the rodent business had failed like paul likes to keep saying. But enough is enough. Paul, you have a great life doing what you do. We wish you the best. We are thankful we dont have to deal with you anymore. By the way someone told me once I could get a cheap cable box off ya. Have a good one everybody.
Old 08-31-2009, 05:37 PM   #119
OK- I'm glad both parties have said that they are done now.

All this bickering---I feel like I'm back at home growing up. I keep waiting for someone to put out their cigarette on me.


Paul and Ben were drivin' their arses off this weekend planting yard signs for the show! Something like 100 signs and 500+ miles were knocked down....

They went all over the place---I can't wait to see people come and check it out.

But I'm sorta bummed that I've sold so much online already--I'll have to have a poker game at my table.

Old 08-31-2009, 06:02 PM   #120
Originally Posted by mvite View Post
But I'm sorta bummed that I've sold so much online already--I'll have to have a poker game at my table.
Great. Kris got a gleam in his eye and said "I like poker!". I'm just gonna leave him at your table, Mark. Is the spider pied gonna be part of the pot?

Join now to reply to this thread or open new ones for your questions & comments! is the largest online community about Reptile & Amphibians, Snakes, Lizards and number one classifieds service with thousands of ads to look for. Registration is open to everyone and FREE. Click Here to Register!


ball pythons, cornsnakes, pennsylvania, pittsburgh reptile show

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Halifax Reptile Expo - September 20, 2009 Her Herps Shows & Events 3 09-15-2009 01:47 PM
Kansas City Reptile Show - March 15, 2009 GoLizards Shows & Events 1 04-09-2009 10:53 AM
Kansas City Reptile Show - January 18, 2009! GoLizards Shows & Events 0 01-05-2009 10:00 AM
Kansas City Reptile Show - September 14, 2008 GoLizards Shows & Events 0 09-11-2008 10:44 PM
Kansas City Reptile Show - September 23, 2007 Go Lizards Shows & Events 0 09-04-2007 10:40 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:01 AM.

Fauna Top Sites

Powered by vBulletin® Version
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.09111500 seconds with 10 queries
Content copyrighted ©2002-2022, FaunaClassifieds, LLC