What constitutes "bona fide research and educational purposes?"

Last year, I also saw at the San Jose, CA reptile show baby turtles being sold with the same type of list you had to sign your name to. I questioned one of the vendors just out of my own curiosity about the 4 inch law and they said it did not apply to tortoises.

I also breed certain reptials and I buy and sell many other, today I had a baby sulcata up for sale and I had a young couple question me and I told them it was only for turtles...lol well stupid me tonight I was researching and read that it also includes tortoises. Is this true or has the law changed. And if the law hasnt changed, how are people so easily selling these tortoises.

Also a note on a method I had read that one pet supplier had sold the baby red eared sliders, the customer would buy all supplies associated with the turtle and they would give the turtle to them, making it a legal transaction.

If anyone could shed some light on the tortoise issue, please let me know. I have more requests to purchase, I just dont want the fines and problems.

well i'd like to say first, that having a turtle or tourtise that small shoudlnt be a problem if you know how to take care of it or learn how to take care of it and keep its area clan and wash your hands, and of course provide adult supervision when allowing little kids to play with them. i dont really like it when pet stores sell turtles any way, lots of them are so un-cared for and neglected. i think that if a store wants to cary a turtle it can only cary a small amount of turtles at a time and there should be certain regualtions about having a proper habitat set up, not just a dark box with a food dish. as long as the store/vendor or who ever is selling them has taken care of the turtle and ensured it has no illnesses or problems it should be elegable for sale! that way the stores will have no choice but to take care of them, if they arnt allowde to sell a sick pet then there isnt any profit for them.
(srr, evily ranting in this post )

Originally Posted by gemdreamer

Last year, I also saw at the San Jose, CA reptile show baby turtles being sold with the same type of list you had to sign your name to. I questioned one of the vendors just out of my own curiosity about the 4 inch law and they said it did not apply to tortoises.

I also breed certain reptials and I buy and sell many other, today I had a baby sulcata up for sale and I had a young couple question me and I told them it was only for turtles...lol well stupid me tonight I was researching and read that it also includes tortoises. Is this true or has the law changed. And if the law hasnt changed, how are people so easily selling these tortoises.

Also a note on a method I had read that one pet supplier had sold the baby red eared sliders, the customer would buy all supplies associated with the turtle and they would give the turtle to them, making it a legal transaction.

If anyone could shed some light on the tortoise issue, please let me know. I have more requests to purchase, I just dont want the fines and problems.

When the FDA says "turtle", they are indeed referring to both turtles and tortoises. Here is a page from the FDA's site that lists the regulations regarding the "4-inch law".
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...cfm?FR=1240.62
...Note that in part (a) is where they define "turtle" as being any animals of the order Testudinata. Keep in mind that each state has the right to impose restrictions that do not interfere with the FDA's regulations, so I'd advise obtaining a copy of your state's regulations (usually through the DNR).

Maybe there are other provisions and exceptions that I am not aware of, so this post is solely based on the information I have obtained thus far.

My personal $.02 on this is that the law is just another attempt to protect our children, since many parents do NOT. As I understand it, the law was first written in 1970, and established the 4-inch rule because it would be harder for children to fit them into their mouths. What's next, banning puppies and kittens that bite just because they can transmit rabies?!