Is it a hobby anymore

I now enjoy my hobby even more, as I never have before.

There is nothing quite like the reptilian stress reliever, of having a horrible day, taking out a beloved snake, and just being in awe about every little detail you can visually see with the serpent you are holding. The pattern, the colors, the scalation, the fact it has a mind of its' own, and the fact I feel like the most blessed guy alive by owning these wonderful animals and enjoying them, all play a part in my enjoyment of this hobby.

I bred snakes back in the nineties in small quantities, and while I had a complete blast doing so, and was successful in selling babies, vending at herp shows, wholesaling, etc., I decided to stop breeding and just focus on collecting the best specimens I could find. I have never looked back.

I do miss watching eggs hatch, and all of the excitement that all ensues. That I do miss. I am sure all of you readers know what I am talking about..haha!

I just found though, that with handling my hobby the way I do, I have much more time for the other things in my life as well, while having a decent sized collection that is actually quite easy to maintain, as they are pets only.

When it becomes more work that overrides your overall passion, it may be time to reconsider the goals.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Just to be sure, I went back and went through my list.
- I'd still rather clean cages than my house. CHECK
- I enjoy feeding the critters. CHECK
- If one doesn't eat that usually does, I still care why. CHECK
- I still hold snakes while cleaning cages, or feeding cagemates. CHECK
- I still get excited when I think something might be gravid. CHECK
- I still have first times. CHECK
- I think that the health of any given animal is more important than potential babies. CHECK
- I'm going to get rid of my animals, if/when I decide to take that "next step" with my girlfriend. WHAT???? HELL NO!!, WHO PUT THAT IN THERE, THAT ISN'T ON MY LIST
- I have snakes that I have no intention of breeding, or selling. CHECK
- When I get bit, my first thought is I hope the snake will hold on long enough for me to get a good picture. CHECK (sorry, guys, didn't happen today...but I think I've proved this one true enough times)

YES!!!

I agree...with a few alterations...GECKOS, NOT SNAKES, GUY, NOT GIRLFRIEND (need one of them, but the geckos WILL NOT GO)

I even take in MBD rescues, knowing they will never be bred, but not wanting them to suffer at the hands of ignorant morons.

I just MAKE ROOM.

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Just to be sure, I went back and went through my list.
- I'd still rather clean cages than my house. CHECK
- I enjoy feeding the critters. CHECK
- If one doesn't eat that usually does, I still care why. CHECK
- I still hold snakes while cleaning cages, or feeding cagemates. CHECK
- I still get excited when I think something might be gravid. CHECK
- I still have first times. CHECK
- I think that the health of any given animal is more important than potential babies. CHECK
- I'm going to get rid of my animals, if/when I decide to take that "next step" with my girlfriend. WHAT???? HELL NO!!, WHO PUT THAT IN THERE, THAT ISN'T ON MY LIST
- I have snakes that I have no intention of breeding, or selling. CHECK
- When I get bit, my first thought is I hope the snake will hold on long enough for me to get a good picture. CHECK (sorry, guys, didn't happen today...but I think I've proved this one true enough times)

Stop it Harald, I can only give you karma so many times in one day.

This hobby means more to me then most people know. I get called names by people I have never done a thing too. I get called names becuase I buy and resell animals for my friends. I was even told I did not produce the cremesicle enigmas I had last year. I promise I did and I will be producing better quality ones this year.

I do not think making money is what is killing this all for us. I think it is greed from a few that just talk louder then most.

I make money doing this. I have a blast with what I have. I love sitting in my venomous room and watching the boomslangs. That is one of my most favorite things to do. The business side has it's perks also. I love when children get into the hobby or even get another animal. The look they have is priceless. You can ask most of my customers I will sit and talk to a child about their animals. I dont care if it is a normal corn snake. They love their animals and I think a lot of us have lost that feeling. I know I have.

When I post an ad I worry who is going to say this or that now. I never worry about what others are selling for. If they are cheaper then me who cares. But I worry what is this person going to say. Am I to cheap or to much. My geckos I produce dont even hit the market. I have yet to have one person say I charged to much. But I know I am higher then most people. I am still getting 300 to 400 for novas. I seen them posted here for 79.99 and I am not mad. But I wonder do people think I am ripping them off.

This feeling should not be here. I also worry about what I breed. Am I wrong if I want to breed a certain morph to a normal. And sell a few. Am I wrong if I want to breed to make normals of anything? Why do I have to worry about what others think is right and wrong. Why am I worried if my price is where others want it to be.

When I go to shows I know a lot of people come and price off me. I usualy have all my animals marked early and then the groups come up and look. I am cool with that. i have been asked why I dont do that. People see me talking to my friends instead. I tell them I would rather talk to my friends then worry about the "market" at the show.

Why do we have to look at an animal and first say what morph is it and how much is it worth. I see it a lot and I have been catching myself doing it too.

I dont mean to get down on anyone but I think most of us lost the kid inside us.

Every fight on the hobby has to do with money lately. This person crashed the market and this person is trying to sell what he has for to much and blah blah blah blah blah......................

I love the shows. I love them more then anything. I have friends I see like John, Dave and Sammy. And I look forward to that more then the show itself. I seen people say Daytona sucked this year. I WAS ONE OF THEM. Becuase nothing cool was there and some complained about the Bells and Rich. WHY? There were a lot of very cool animals there now that I look back. I got to see a lot of my friends and hang out with them. Gregg M, Brian B, Ray Hunter, and many many others.

I posted this becuase I lost site myself. I lost that wow look at that animal it is stunning. People come by my table and talk to me a lot. But the last 4 months or so I noticed it faiding and I know why. becuase I turned into the vendor/breeder I hated. One that worried about market and worried what this group or that group were going to say.

I tell you what I am going to do. I am going to produce what I love. I am going to keep what I love. Screw what they are worth................... I dont care

Gary. Your post got me to thinking... thanks, Ive been battling some of those same thoughts here recently.

Originally Posted by Gary O

I dont mean to get down on anyone but I think most of us lost the kid inside us.

Thats it. Thats what I'm looking for again. That Christmas Morning feel. I used to get it from the snakes........but like Shrap says.......I let the money become an issue. My goat herd, every single one is a cheap goat. I obtained them cheap........and brought them up and when my nieghbor with the expensive goats looks at mine and says "How do you get them looking so good?" my pleasure in my accomplishment and skill is..............
everything I'm looking for

My snakes~ I fell into the money trap and it stole the pleasure from me. I've sold or given away a CONSIDERABLE number of the snakes. Have more empty tubs in the racks than full ones now. I'm trying to find it again. That pleasure........

The pleasure I got the first time a corn snake laid eggs for me
The second time one did~ or even the tenth time!
When a baby that didn't want to eat finally did
When the rats produced a blue dumbo for the first time

Before I discovered that no matter how I treasured those little corn snakes no one but me was excited about them and I could not keep them all. Before I found that no matter how many rats you breed.....ALL the babies are cute and they all freeze the same
No matter how much money I spend on Rat food, Rat racks, superior genetics, snake racks, heat, electricity, ALL of it...............
I was the only one excited about my babies and I couldn't/can't afford to keep every single one

The farm livestock is still exciting and fun........
and this awful but true..........

I can't afford to keep every single one I produce..........but much like the tomatoes from my garden.....if I dont have a buyer that values my stock as much as I do I can just EAT IT MYSELF


PS~ Gary......I'm pming you as soon as I post this. I think I owe you money for my website again. Hosting almost as many or more pics of livestock as of snakes on that site now!

Donna- I don't think anyone will chew you a new one and I'm sure no one is intentionally trying to rain on your parade because I'm pretty sure everyone who has posted here so far started out pretty much just like you.

Its not necessarily what happens in the first year or two or five that has produced the feelings of many of those here. Its what goes on past that time frame.

You say you produced 37 babies last year, that's great. You sold three at your first show, that's great. You have two pet stores that want to stock your geckos and again, that is great. You have a website and your hobby is taking of and once again, you guessed it that is just great. The most greatest thing of all however is that you are still loving it and it would be great if that feeling never changed. Now for some of the not so great stuff

Next year you produce twice as many babies. You still have 15 left over from this year but that's OK because you get such a thrill out of seeing all those smiling faces looking at you when you walk into your gecko room. The following year you produce even more but again whats a few more mouths feed and cages to clean with all those smiling faces.

You continue to sell only three per show but you don't care because the main thing is you are educating people. People who are going to the table next to yours buying the geckos for $10.00 less. But hey at least they are educated. Oh, yeah and the smiling faces make it all worth while.

Now those two pet stores want you to replace animals they killed because for some reason its your fault or you sold them sick animals. They want to buy fewer animals and they want them at cheaper prices or they want you to bring them in on consignment(stupid cheap lowlife pet store owners) If it wasn't for the smiling faces it just might start to bother you.

Your website is a hit and now you are selling on line. It gives you great joy to look at those smiling little faces as you gently pack them into their deli cups and take them to the fed ex terminal to send them off to their happy new homes. You are way to trusting at first and you have a couple of bad customers who don't hesitate to run to some other website to smear your name. You fight back and vindicate yourself but now the longest page on your site is your TOS page. You've also gotten a bit more cynical and you promise to be more selective about who you sell to.

The problem with that is you are still producing babies and you are starting to realize that you may have too many. You still love the smiling faces but the food bills and maintenance bills are creeping up and you have another 30 eggs in the incubator. You decide to sell 50 babies to a wholesaler to raise a bit of extra money and to lighten your load. It eases your burden a bit but you have these guilty feelings that somehow you haven't done enough to ensure that all those smiling faces will go to good homes. Then one day you are approached by a total stranger at one of the swaps. She asks you if you will take in two geckos that she can no longer care for. You gladly accept and are happy to be able to give these guys a better life. She hands you a box with two barely clinging to life geckos that have been neglected for so long you hardly recognize them. Then you find out that she bought them from either one of the shops you sell to or from one that buys from the wholesaler you sold you babies to and that really bums you out. You decide then and there that you will only sell your own animals.

A couple of weeks later you are in your gecko room at 4:00 AM dealing with some unforeseen emergency that will cost you several hundred dollars to fix and you look around and your heart sinks just a bit when you realize for the very first time that your really wish these stupid little lizards would wipe those silly little grins off their faces.

Welcome to our world.

I'm not saying this will happen to you and I truly hope it doesn't but I can almost guarantee that everyone who has posted here with feelings of relief at the way they have changed their outlook on their hobby has gone through something like this. Of course the details are going to be different but I think the others will recognize at least some parts of what I just wrote.

Please don't be offended by the continued references to the smiling faces. I wasn't making fun of you. I just saw an opportunity and ran with it.

I know that for me personally my enjoyment has diminished greatly since I made the switch from hobby to business. Unfortunately I don't see a way to get out of it easily and I am not so turned off by it that I am ready to pack it in entirely so I keep plugging away.

I wish you continued success and continued enjoyment of your geckos. Just don't be so focused on the angels that you forget about the demons and I am not just talking about people. I'm talking about all those little demons that seem to pop up and rob us of our enjoyment of our hobbies.

VERY well spoken post there Steve. You hit the spot right on in so many issues. Of course there are alot of those "demons" that rob us of our joy and sometimes we just have to scale back a little, take a deep breath and remember where it all started from.

Steve- Thank you for your post!! I do know exactly when you mean. I've been reading BOI for years...and it's sad. And it's scary, too!! I can only hope that being armed with the knowledge I've gained here and at other sites, I won't fall into the problems others have...but I DO know that there will be OTHERS. I'll make mistakes. And I'll learn MORE from those mistakes. As for my last season, I only hatched 19 (due to heat/hatching medium issues with are now corrected). And lost 6. And sold 3. A couple are holdbacks because of their unique morphs, colors or markings. The remainder will be going in the website for sale this summer. The rest are the geckos I've purchased for my colonies. I'm not out to be the next Donald Trump. This isn't about the money. I'll never get as big as Anthony Caponetto or Allen Repashy, BUT I'd like to EVENTUALLY produce geckos 1/2 a beautiful as theirs someday, just because I LOVE the breed. IT'S the PEOPLE who scare me. The stupid ones who don't know how to care for animals, the scammers, the people who are out there breeding every gecko they own to make a buck and under-cutting everyone else, even if those geckos are unhealthy or UGLY. The ones who'd rather sell 100 mixed morph, sickly, inbred geckos for $35 a piece, rather than breeding for health and quality. And the lawmakers who think that just because we own "unconventional" pets, we're bad people who do bad things with those animals. I'm VERY selective about my breeding pairs. I'll never throw pairs together just to get more geckos if they aren't going to be great looking, healthy animals. I never intend to get so big that I can't spend time everyday with each of my geckos. If that happens, I'll sell the whole lot except for my favorites, and stick with the educational side of herps at local shows. Another thing I do when I'm not on the herp sites- I post crime news for CrimeLibrary's message boards. I see the demons every day. The murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves...you name the scum-bag group, I post the news about them. I know they're out there, and do my damnedest to keep them as far away fro me and mine as humanly possible. But I still get the warm fuzzies when I encounter the angels, and I shout their names to the world so people know they're still with us! Thank you again for you post and your well wishes. I wish you happiness and success, too!!

Originally Posted by sschind

Donna- I don't think anyone will chew you a new one and I'm sure no one is intentionally trying to rain on your parade because I'm pretty sure everyone who has posted here so far started out pretty much just like you.

Its not necessarily what happens in the first year or two or five that has produced the feelings of many of those here. Its what goes on past that time frame.

You say you produced 37 babies last year, that's great. You sold three at your first show, that's great. You have two pet stores that want to stock your geckos and again, that is great. You have a website and your hobby is taking of and once again, you guessed it that is just great. The most greatest thing of all however is that you are still loving it and it would be great if that feeling never changed. Now for some of the not so great stuff

Next year you produce twice as many babies. You still have 15 left over from this year but that's OK because you get such a thrill out of seeing all those smiling faces looking at you when you walk into your gecko room. The following year you produce even more but again whats a few more mouths feed and cages to clean with all those smiling faces.

You continue to sell only three per show but you don't care because the main thing is you are educating people. People who are going to the table next to yours buying the geckos for $10.00 less. But hey at least they are educated. Oh, yeah and the smiling faces make it all worth while.

Now those two pet stores want you to replace animals they killed because for some reason its your fault or you sold them sick animals. They want to buy fewer animals and they want them at cheaper prices or they want you to bring them in on consignment(stupid cheap lowlife pet store owners) If it wasn't for the smiling faces it just might start to bother you.

Your website is a hit and now you are selling on line. It gives you great joy to look at those smiling little faces as you gently pack them into their deli cups and take them to the fed ex terminal to send them off to their happy new homes. You are way to trusting at first and you have a couple of bad customers who don't hesitate to run to some other website to smear your name. You fight back and vindicate yourself but now the longest page on your site is your TOS page. You've also gotten a bit more cynical and you promise to be more selective about who you sell to.

The problem with that is you are still producing babies and you are starting to realize that you may have too many. You still love the smiling faces but the food bills and maintenance bills are creeping up and you have another 30 eggs in the incubator. You decide to sell 50 babies to a wholesaler to raise a bit of extra money and to lighten your load. It eases your burden a bit but you have these guilty feelings that somehow you haven't done enough to ensure that all those smiling faces will go to good homes. Then one day you are approached by a total stranger at one of the swaps. She asks you if you will take in two geckos that she can no longer care for. You gladly accept and are happy to be able to give these guys a better life. She hands you a box with two barely clinging to life geckos that have been neglected for so long you hardly recognize them. Then you find out that she bought them from either one of the shops you sell to or from one that buys from the wholesaler you sold you babies to and that really bums you out. You decide then and there that you will only sell your own animals.

A couple of weeks later you are in your gecko room at 4:00 AM dealing with some unforeseen emergency that will cost you several hundred dollars to fix and you look around and your heart sinks just a bit when you realize for the very first time that your really wish these stupid little lizards would wipe those silly little grins off their faces.

Welcome to our world.

I'm not saying this will happen to you and I truly hope it doesn't but I can almost guarantee that everyone who has posted here with feelings of relief at the way they have changed their outlook on their hobby has gone through something like this. Of course the details are going to be different but I think the others will recognize at least some parts of what I just wrote.

Please don't be offended by the continued references to the smiling faces. I wasn't making fun of you. I just saw an opportunity and ran with it.

I know that for me personally my enjoyment has diminished greatly since I made the switch from hobby to business. Unfortunately I don't see a way to get out of it easily and I am not so turned off by it that I am ready to pack it in entirely so I keep plugging away.

I wish you continued success and continued enjoyment of your geckos. Just don't be so focused on the angels that you forget about the demons and I am not just talking about people. I'm talking about all those little demons that seem to pop up and rob us of our enjoyment of our hobbies.

Originally Posted by kmarsh

VERY well spoken post there Steve. You hit the spot right on in so many issues. Of course there are alot of those "demons" that rob us of our joy and sometimes we just have to scale back a little, take a deep breath and remember where it all started from.

Yup- A breather and some perspective!!! And a look at the baby pictures!!