Snake with URI

Okay...I have an albino house snake that I've kept since 2008. Been housing this guy pretty much the same way the entire time, as is the same fashion I keep most of my other snakes (including many more house snakes); i.e. same temps, humidity, substrate, etc. A few months ago, he gets a URI. I take him to my vet who give me Baytril to administer to him daily via injection. Did that for 20 days, and the snake got better.

NOW, the URI back again, and just as bad. In the meantime, he did develop some minor skin sores that I assume are a result from the injections (mainly just a couple patches of missing scales that slowly are coming back with sheds). Additionally, he has developed some missaligned vertebrae in his neck. The only cause I think of is when we were administering the Baytril the first go-around, my wife perhaps applied too much pressure when holding him down (this was a two-person job, and she was not comfortable giving the snake a shot, whereas I had been doing it off/on for years). Anyway, so that's likely our fault, I'll admit. Our bad, but I don't what can be done for crooked vertebrae. Please no bashing; we feel terrible enough about that as it is.

So anyway...I'm debating on whether I should repeat the Baytril treatment again. The drug itself appeared to help (at least for a while), but I'm hesitant to go through with putting the snake a shot everyday again, especially if he's gonna get those sores again, and the potential risk of him getting his spine/vertebrae injured again (of course, like everyone else, snakes hate shots, and regardless of how you hold them, they're gonna pull and twist).

My question now is: does anyone know of a medicine/drug/treatment that is effective for URI that could possibly be given orally? Still a little stressful in the delivery, I know, but not as stressful of trying to give a shot IMHO.

Of course, I don't want the snake to die, and I will take him to the vet once again if need be to repeat the previous treatment again. Just wanted to feel everyone out to see if there's an alternative.

Thanks,
Michael

Daily injections for 20 days? At what dosage?

If the Baytril wasn't effective the first time around, there really isn't much reason to think it will do better this time, IMO. I won't suggest other meds because without knowing what bacteria are involved, it would just be a shot in the dark....but, fwiw, Baytril can be adminstered orally.

This sounds like a case where a culture and sensitivity needs to be performed on the oral cavity and nasal cavity... your vet can perform it and send it to the lab, where they grow the sample for about 2 weeks. This test is as simple as collecting a sample with a cotton swab, and it will tell you exactly what kind of infection it is, the name of it, as well as the drugs it is sensitive to. This particular infection might be resistant to Enrofloxacin (Baytril).

As far as the mis-aligned spine and missing scales, Baytril is known for localized reactions when given Intramuscular...so that could explain the missing scales...but you could be dealing with a separate issue as far as the mis-aligned spine. I doubt you or your wife could have caused that, if it truly is mis-aligned. That would need a GREAT deal of stregnth.

Oral medications generally take much longer to work, and are not usually used in snakes, because the proper way to administer them is through a tube, into the animals' stomach. It's much different than giving a puppy a pill.

I have a TON of sucess with Fortaz injections with clients, but again...drugs should not be used without knowing which drugs will work...and to find that out, a culture needs to be performed. It does take quite a while to get the test results back, so you and your veterinarian will have to come up with a plan in the meantime. Fortaz injections are usually every 3 days rather than every day....you can speak to him or her about that.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Daily injections for 20 days? At what dosage?

Yes, at either .5 ccs or .05 ccs (don't remember and done have my records in front of me at work).

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I say "miss-aligned" for lack of a better term. It may not be that at all, like you said. It was just the most accurate adjective that came to mind when I first noticed. Like the vertebrae is just...crooked and out of whack. BTW, this is not occuring where we did the injections, which was further down the spine about 1/3 of the snake's length. This vertebrae is issue is happening just beyond the head in the "neck" area (I know a snake is pretty much all neck and tail, but you guys know where I'm talking about!)

I'm gonna look into the culture route, and probably get it to my vet by Saturday.

I'm very stressed about this. This is my #1 stud male for next year and I really don't want to lose him. On the flip side, I'm trying to weight out exactly how much I can afford to get him well. Got a baby on the way, and already downsizing the collection, etc etc....in the end, its just a luxury, ya know?

So is life...

Swabbing the oral cavity might be of some benefit, if there is mucous at either the choanae or glottis. If there's just some bubbling, it's pretty hit or miss. A tracheal wash might be of more use - hard to say without seeing the animal first hand. Let your vet make that call.

I have limited experience with Fortaz in veterinary applications; but, with humans, it is generally given concomitantly with an aminoglycoside for best response. It's got a pretty limited shelf life, once constituted. But, again, discussion of drugs really isn't appropriate without knowing what pathogen is involved.
Another thing to consider is that the respiratory symptoms could be secondary to a systemic infection.

I understand. I appreciate the advice so far. Thanks.

http://.net//showthread.php?t=23784

This discussion thread includes my comments on the correct use of baytril, and standard practices on performing culture and sensitivity to determine the correct antibiotics, that are applicable to your case. Exactly what were the culture/sensitivity results from your first vet visit?

Since you say this recurrence of URI is months after the snake improved, I would look at husbandry. You may be keeping it the same way as your other house snakes that are doing fine, but if you havent already done so, I would provide a dark warm spot that is at least 100F and also mist the cage daily to raise humidity for this snake. This helps decrease respiratory distress. If the snake is feeding normally I would maintain humidity, nutrition and hydration and give the snake the choice of high temps and see if that helps. If it doesnt I would have the vet redo culture and sensitivity on a sterile rinse of the nares or trachea, depending on where the discharge is. The problem of doing a wash of this area is that its likely to be contaminated with oral flora which may not be the pathogens. Lots of different things will probably show up and the trick is determining what the pathogen is. Its unlikely a single antibiotic will be effective against everything that shows up. If your vet has any experience and education in reptile medicine he should know that injectable baytril is very problematic in reptiles and should expand the sensitivity testing to include a wider variety of drugs, which would be determined by the culture results. Radiology would determine what, if anything, could be done about the spinal defect. If the snake can function relatively normally, I would be inclined to not do anything about it because of the potentiality of any manipulations making the condition worse.

http://.net//showthread.php?t=23784

Sorry, the link in the previous message doesnt work.

I guess I cant post links. go to the Bush-League Breeders Club site to the Boas-General forum and the fourth thread down is the thread I referred to in the first post, entitled:
"Damage from meds?? ***GRAPHIC PIC WARNING***"

OMG!!!! that is AWEFUL , poor snake