Which Fool Should I Vote For? Bush or Kerry?

From a washington post article:

America's commitment to the rule of law was reaffirmed eloquently by the Supreme Court on Monday in two decisions limiting the Bush administration's powers in holding "enemy combatants." As Justice Sandra Day O'Connor bluntly wrote for the court: "[A] state of war is not a blank check for the President when it comes to the rights of the Nation's citizens."

The first case involved an American named Yaser Esam Hamdi. Born in Louisiana in 1980 and raised in Saudi Arabia, he was captured during the war in Afghanistan by members of the Northern Alliance and turned over to U.S. troops there. After interrogating Hamdi, the U.S. military concluded he was an "enemy combatant" who had supported the Taliban. He was held without charges at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and then, when officials realized he was a U.S. citizen, sent to a naval brig in Norfolk.

Hamdi's father petitioned a federal court for the most basic of American civil liberties -- a citizen's right to know what he's accused of, and to receive a fair trial, before the government puts him in jail. The court embraced that basic right to due process and rejected the administration's claim that its warmaking powers override constitutional liberties. "An interrogation by one's captor, however effective an intelligence-gathering tool, hardly constitutes a constitutionally adequate factfinding before a neutral decisionmaker," O'Connor wrote.

The court's ruling in the Hamdi case helped restore the balance that the United States lost after the destabilizing shock of Sept. 11, 2001. Reacting to that horrific event, the Bush administration, with the support of many angry and frightened Americans, embraced the logic of total war. O'Connor's opinion firmly reasserted the primacy of law: "It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad."

Full article found here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Jul1.html

The administration was only chained in by the judicial system (good thing someone set it up that way). Just because he has an islamic name doesn't make the administration's policy any less damning to your rights as a citizen.

While I agree that defense of the US should be priority of the Commander In Chief's job it should not be at the cost of our freedom (doing that would complete the terrorists attack instead of protect us from it). My personal opinion is that Bush reacted correctly (from what was known at the time and with the understanding that hindsight can be 20/20) in dealing with the initial crisis. I think (again personal opinion) that the weak character of the president has shown itself in the last 2 years with the handleing of Iraq and the continued manipulation of the public to push through such legistalation as the patriot act).

I don't think Kerry is any better. We're stuck with choosing the lesser of two evils, not a pleasant thought at a time when the country needs a strong leader.

Ronnie, that was a very intellectually stimulating response. I was merely making the point that just because one takes a stand and sticks with it doesn't mean its a good thing. Do you realize that about 90 percent of the "terrorists" taken into custody were innocent. These people were just held without any justification for months and years. As far as Bush being elected to protect us from Radical Islam, thats just not true. 9/11 happened after he was elected by the majority of Amer......wait, no, he was declared the winner by the supreme court despite recieving fewer total votes. (Im not arguing with the results, our system is great and has worked well for 200 plus years, just a side note.) Do you really think a Democrat would have done nothing in response to the attacks? The bottom line is that Bush has been very irresponsible fiscally, politically and in foreign affairs. He seems to think he is morally justified in is actions and unfortunately people like you blindly follow him without questioning anything. Again, Kerry may not be the right answer, but Bush is definitely the wrong answer. Its time for a change. This forum is getting old and its pointless to keep arguing with ignorant people. You cast your vote and Ill cast mine.

EP

Here's all I need to say about MY thoughts on this years election and world events of the day. See the following link (it's at my website):

http://www.angelfire.com/home/thanes...ge/indexR.html

If you have something to add or complain about, e-mail me via my website.

Mark Merideth says:

"It is not that most conservatives are ignorant; it is that most ignorant people are conservative."

You believe what this numb nuts asswipe says ? I believe I have three times the education HE does and I'M CONSERVATIVE !


Back up what you're saying with some logic and truth rather than the typical stoned blathering and ranting typical of a left wing radical.


http://www.angelfire.com/home/thanes...ge/indexR.html

Personally, I am tired of the crappy choices offered to us by a two party system.

We are never allowed to choose the best person for the job, because we are so limited in our view.

I am also tired of having to vote for the lesser of two evils.

I will vote for John Kerry. I am not a big fan...I am unsure of his ability to lead our country...I do however see what GWBush has done with this country and I will NOT allow myself to let that continue.

He is stripping our personal freedoms and our constitutional rights away from us, one step at a time, and doing it in the name of "patriotism" and "security".
Taking away our freedoms in the name of "Freedom"??!?!??
Does this present a paradox to ANYONE else but me?

We should be rioting in the street, before Bush's goons come, take our weapons away, and ship us off in box cars to never be seen again.

It is coming people...he needs to be stopped...

Anyone with teenage children should be VERY afraid of GWBush.

If he is re-elected, the draft will be reinstituted next spring.

Your children will be shipped off to fight, against their will, because "He [Saddam] tried to kill my daddy" (George W. Bush).

We have no business in IRAQ.

Oh yeah, by the way...they are changing the Conscription Act to include girls as well as boys ages 18-26.

So now your daughters are going to be drafted along with your sons.

Voting for Bush will kill thousands of our children.
Voting for Kerry MIGHT do the same...but with Bush it's guaranteed.

If you don't believe me go to www.senate.gov and look up S89 or www.house.gov and lookup HR163

These are the resolutions that will have your children being drafted by March of next year. Boys or girls...oh, yeah...and college can't save them anymore. They will be sent regardless of education status. And another thing...a special extradition treaty with Canada is in the works...so no more dodging the draft and going to Canada. George would have done that if daddy wouldn't have gotten him a National Guard assignment that he never showed up for.

Another thing...the president can extend the terms of current soldiers as long as he deems necessary in the defense of our country. Which means, since he has declared "war" on terror, our soldiers may be stuck in their obligations indefinitely.

This bill also provides a clause for a mandatory 2 year service for EVERYONE 18-26, unless they meet very specific criteria for release from their obligation.

Have fun Republicans...
Hope you can sleep at night after you vote for GW Bush.

My bad...the bills have been introduced by the Democrats...

Who I personally can't stand either.


why can't we get someone who believes in guns AND the environment (makes sense that they would go hand in hand for those of us who are hunters)

Have medical marijuana, stem cell research AND strong business ties.

Don't tell me I flip flop either (the Repubs are good for that accusation).
I stated originally that feel the GOP is just the greater of two evils. I still feel that way...
Maybe the whole problem here is big government.
Getting ahead of the fact that it is supposed to be BY THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE...not lying as much as you can about yourself and the other guy that you get elected, and then doing any damn thing you want.
Sorry...just got into a rant here...but I spose this is what happens when you have a political forum.

Just curious: when and where did you serve to acquire so much knowledge and insight on military policy and manning requirements?

I don't know a thing about you but it is clear from reading your posts that you have no concept of military service or the way in which extensions of service actually work. There is no need for a draft and it is doubtful that we will ever again see one in this country short of global conflict. I am not basing this statement on election year political spin but on more than a decade of active duty military service. We are no more or less "overextended" than we have been since the start of the Clinton drawdown in the early 1990s. (A cut voted for by Kerry BTW). Regardless of force strength, this nation’s force defeated one of the largest land armies in the world with little more than 1 Army and 1 Marine Division.

You are letting you personal view of one man override rational thought. If you are going to post information in a public forum, I'd suggest that you at least make a basic attempt to verify the "facts" that you loosely throw around.

P.S. I can't even begin to imagine how you were able to throw support for the Democratic Party into a post advocating gun owner rights and the defense of personal freedom. That is simply remarkable!

Like I said...lesser of two evils...I don't like EITHER of my choices...
but I refuse to vote for GW Bush when his regime has done more to undermine my personal liberties than any other in the history of our nation.

As for gun owner rights...I agree that the Democrat's will NOT protect those...but I fear...with all the "PATRIOTIC" controls on our personal freedoms in the name of "National Security", Goerge Bush's White House will not protect my ownership of firearms either.

BTW...if we walked in and took the 3rd largest land army in the world with barely any causualties, with only two divisions (I would have to assume you are talking about the Gulf War) why are we having so many problems now?
Is it because we don't belong there? Probably.
Is it because these people don't want us there? Definitely.
Afghanistan was one thing...and I see many other threats on our horizon that are much more important than Saddam Hussein...but "He tried to kill my daddy" is a GREAT reason to depose him, right?
Dick Cheney used to go have dinner with him in his palace...while dropping off the latest biological weapon samples.
We have placed thousands of our children in harms way for an idealistic little spoiled rich boy to make his personal vendetta.
Avenging his fathers name and finishing what daddy couldn't.

Do you actually dispute this?

What single piece of evidence do we have for being in Iraq?

Can you show me a link to one verifiable shred of evidence?

Please...I would like to see it...it would change my opinion of this entire matter.

Originally posted by Alias47
Do you actually dispute this?

Every last bit of it. Why? It is simply incorrect.

Originally posted by Alias47
I refuse to vote for GW Bush when his regime has done more to undermine my personal liberties than any other in the history of our nation.

I challenge you to name a single personal liberty that has disappeared as a result of the Bush presidency. Just one.

Originally posted by Alias47
As for gun owner rights...I agree that the Democrat's will NOT protect those...but I fear...with all the "PATRIOTIC" controls on our personal freedoms in the name of "National Security", Goerge Bush's White House will not protect my ownership of firearms either.

Again, I challenge you to name a single piece of gun control legislation that the Bush White House has proposed. I can name dozens proposed by Kerry......

Originally posted by Alias47
BTW...if we walked in and took the 3rd largest land army in the world with barely any causualties, with only two divisions (I would have to assume you are talking about the Gulf War) why are we having so many problems now?

No actually, 2 Divisions were the bulk of the forces for THIS Iraqi War, not Desert Storm. The problems now are not widely supported by the Iraqi people and are perpetuated by a few remnants of Hussein's loyalists and the Iranian and al Qaeda backed foreign fighters that have poured into Iraq for the sole purpose of preventing democratic elections. You see, democracy and secular government is in direct conflict with extremist Islamic ideology. This is exactly the reason that the West is despised by the Wahhabist movement. They see the West, led by the world’s only remaining superpower (U.S.) as the sole obstacle between remaining a regional movement and global control.

Originally posted by Alias47
Afghanistan was one thing...and I see many other threats on our horizon that are much more important than Saddam Hussein...

He was a threat to the region’s stability. THAT, in and of itself, enough of a reason to depose him. Hitler was viewed as a harmless crackpot by the European powers until he invaded the Poland in 1939. How many millions of lives could have been saved it the world's powers would have dealt with him before he acquired the military means to impose himself on his neighbors?? Evidence of the Iraqi weapons programs has been well known and extensively documented for more than 20 years. Should we have just waited for him to use them again before acting??

Originally posted by Alias47
but "He tried to kill my daddy" is a GREAT reason to depose him, rightDick Cheney used to go have dinner with him in his palace...while dropping off the latest biological weapon samples.
We have placed thousands of our children in harms way for an idealistic little spoiled rich boy to make his personal vendetta.
Avenging his fathers name and finishing what daddy couldn't.

I challenge you to provide a single scrap of evidence that supports even one of these accusations. This is as groundless as anything Mikey Moore could invent.

We are putting "our" children in harms way because it is right and necessary. (BTW, since you said "our" am I to assume that you are the parent of a service member?) Every single one of us in uniform knew the risks involved when we volunteered. I have spent the better part of my adult years training for a battle that I hoped would never come. But guess what? IT DID. No amount of diplomacy or coalition building would have prevented the current state of affairs. Look back at world history. This isn't the first, or even the second attempt made by the warriors of the Islam faith to bring down the West in just the last 600 years!

The use of pre-emptive military action has placed the Jihadist thugs on the defensive and sapped their ability to conduct further offensive actions both here and abroad. With hundreds of them streaming to Iraq, we no longer have to worry about that same hundred sneaking around in the U.S., waiting to pop us again. If they want to go be martyrs, fine by me. That is better than me or my neighbors plowing into a farm fields or metro skylines.

Originally posted by Alias47
What single piece of evidence do we have for being in Iraq? Can you show me a link to one verifiable shred of evidence?

Take out a map of the world. Tell me what country lies immediately to the east of Iraq? How about due west of Afganistan? Watch the news? ....

I agree with you that Iraq isn't the greatest threat but it all has to start somewhere. There is another Islamic power that is hell-bent on ensuring that its neighbors aren't democratically elected and secular. MOF, they have been financially supporting active terrorist organizations for more than 25 years. They provide the starting off point for the fighters going into Iraq and Afghanistan and are the known financial backer of the al-Sadr militia. BTW, they are dead set on building "The Bomb" and using it. Wouldn't you rather be poised, ready and sitting on their borders long before that time arrives?? I know I damn sure would.

I don’t expect for one second that this one post will change your mind. One of the proudest days in my life was the day I voted for George Bush and I can’t wait to do it again. Think what you will, but it appears that that "spoiled little rich boy" is a pretty smart tactician executing sound military doctrine. Of course that is merely my "professional" opinion.........