Interesting but unethical Hybrid attempt.

i agree with the Texas law. unless an animal is purebred, ther is no reason not to neauter or spay a pet-mutts are great, and seem to have fewer issues along the lines of inbreeding (something that a good breeder will always try to prevent) but we really don't need any more puppies and kitties, as cool and fun as they are. The county i live in is one of the highest in streilized cats and dogs because we used to have lots of unwanted pets, and vets began lowering their costs to help fix animals.
this is also a good reason to not get herps in pairs unless you are housing them separately or specifically breeding them. i have seen ads from adoption agencies about bearded dragons (or almost anything here) whose owners did not know about the prolific breeding habits of their new animals. While i feel bad for those who have this dillema, i would also mention that if they had reseached for a good couple of days and waited awhile before buying their pets, they would probably have the knowladge of how to prevent this. I am
just glad for sites like this where anyone who needs the info can find it or ask for it and get a reasonable answer to their questions.

So- i'm hoping the guy breeding these snakes knows that he may get nothing, or may have to cull some or all of the results, and i hope he is responsible enough to do so. I also hope he isn;t going to sell them at a ridiculous price, because honestly, anyone with one of each snake can do this kind of thing-that is what worries me.

Originally Posted by darkbloodwyvern

this is also a good reason to not get herps in pairs unless you are housing them separately or specifically breeding them. i have seen ads from adoption agencies about bearded dragons (or almost anything here) whose owners did not know about the prolific breeding habits of their new animals. While i feel bad for those who have this dillema, i would also mention that if they had reseached for a good couple of days and waited awhile before buying their pets, they would probably have the knowladge of how to prevent this.

I don't know where you're getting your information but most of the herps that are kept don't just pop out babies every few months like unaltered dogs & cats are capable of. It takes a lot more effort to breed most herps. There is no way in the world that someone unknowlingly had "prolific" bearded dragons and then had tons of babies without some help (i.e. incubation, etc.) from the owner. They don't just pop out like puppies & kitties do. If you don't want baby bearded dragons, pitch the eggs.

Originally Posted by darkbloodwyvern

I also hope he isn;t going to sell them at a ridiculous price, because honestly, anyone with one of each snake can do this kind of thing-that is what worries me.

I say more power to him if he can get someone to pay a ridiculously high price for one of the babies. It's really no one's business but the owner and the person buying the animal.

Originally Posted by Karen Hulvey

I don't know where you're getting your information but most of the herps that are kept don't just pop out babies every few months like unaltered dogs & cats are capable of. It takes a lot more effort to breed most herps. There is no way in the world that someone unknowlingly had "prolific" bearded dragons and then had tons of babies without some help (i.e. incubation, etc.) from the owner. They don't just pop out like puppies & kitties do. If you don't want baby bearded dragons, pitch the eggs.

i don't know why they didn't chuck the eggs, some ads were here about adopting accidental baby beardeds... i know snakes don't breed like mammals, however i think it is a good idea not to keep animals together unless you are willing to chuck the eggs and or deal with any stress caused by the arrangement etc.. not because you will sudden;y have a billion of them... that is what happens with stick insects.
as for the high price thing, i have no influence over what the guy does, I am just always hoping that breeders are caring for their animals as animals, not just money. I don't know the guy, and i'm sure he has good intentions etc, however I have worked at animals shelters for several years and see the results of people breeding/owning animals without this responsibility and doing irresponsible things with pets they can't get rid of. I am hoping that he shows this responsibility and i guess if he can get whatever someone will pay, good for him. Not all people who charge alot of money or scammers or dishonest, but they are out there. i was probably being too assuming in that last statement, since all the popular morphs basically turned out like that ... and i'm bathering so you don't have to read this....

Originally Posted by darkbloodwyvern

and i'm bathering

Get medical help real soon, like.....

Originally Posted by darkbloodwyvern

i agree with the Texas law. unless an animal is purebred, ther is no reason not to neauter or spay a pet-mutts are great, and seem to have fewer issues along the lines of inbreeding (something that a good breeder will always try to prevent) but we really don't need any more puppies and kitties, as cool and fun as they are.

I'm not sure what the Texas law is but I am curious as to why you think it should apply to mutts only. Unless I am missing your intentention you seem to think it is OK to leave purebred animals intact but mutts should be fixed. A purebred can produce unwanted offspring just as easily as a mutt. Your comments also seems to indicate that you would disapprove of two mutts mating and producing offspring but not two purebred animals. Personally, I see little difference in purebred vs mixed breed dogs. If someone wants to breed a labrador and a poodle and charge $1000.00 for the babies, to me it is absolutely no different than someone wanting to breed two pure bred grand champion poodles (or labradors or any other breed for that matter) and charging $1000.00 for the babies. Its still way more than its worth to me.

As far as hybridizing reptiles (or fish as Paul brought up) my issue is not with the ethics of the crossing of species, but rather the potential for missidentification later. Not in the respect that I feel CB animals need to be kept pure for possible reintroduction into the wild if populations diminish but because, I as a keeper would prefer that my animals be of pure species. With more and more people becoming amature breeders it is very easy to see a time when hybrids are purchased without people knowing they are hybrids and these people produce babies that are not pure and pass them off as pure. I get it all the time with fish (mostly cichlids) people with community cichlid tanks with babies they want to sell. They can't be certain however if the male and female were of the same species and its something I am not interested in. I am not opposed to it, I am just not interested in it.

Steve

Originally Posted by sschind

I'm not sure what the Texas law is but I am curious as to why you think it should apply to mutts only.

The Texas law does not apply to mixed breeds only. I recently adopted a purebred English Bulldog fron a shelter, and it was neutered prior to leaving the shelter, pursuant to law.

This spay/neuter regulation for shelters helps reduce the population of unwanted animals in a way that seems fair to all concerned.

Shavemycoinpurse- Im not absolutely certain about genetic drift, I'd have to read the defenition again to be sure, and I don't feel like going and getting my bio book right now...
But is it when the general makeup of a population's gene poll changes and leads to adaption?

Originally Posted by Cat_72

My biggest beef is the fact that they are touting these animals as being "healthier" than purebreds, because they don't have the same genetics...well, HELLO......the puppies still carry the parents' genes. I fear they are opening a whole new can of worms with some of these breedings... the most popular of course being the "Goldendoodle" or "Labradoodle". Here, we are taking a Golden Retriever or Labrador Retriever, BOTH breeds prone to hip dysplasia, and crossing it with a Standard poodle, a breed nearly free of dysplastic dogs.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

Maybe it wouldn't bother me QUITE as much if they would just sell the dogs as what they ARE, Mixed breeds, instead of giving them a fancy name and promoting them as a new breed, but that's the way to make the big bucks, I guess.....these people have no CLUE. And neither do most of the people buying them.

Now you do realize when you are taking about dogs and current dog species, you are talking about about animals that where hybrids hundreds and sometimes thousands of years ago, but through the years have been accepted as regular breeds. Do you really think a poodle of any sort if purebred?? Someone just found a population of poodles running around one day and stated keeping them as pets?! Thats funny. I think you need to look into that a little more. Did you know bull dogs were "created" to be mean and attack bulls, but they proved to have no pourpose and so through more selective breeding you have todays "pure bred" bull dog thats is gental and nice. All the chickens in the world also evolved from one bird species that really is not alot like a chicken. Several new species of chickens are created each year... how does this happen? They sure dont find them in the wild.

I am for attempting hybridization, but not for profit. If you can sell them to recoup costs, thats your business. I am very interested to see what is produced. This is a learning process. Taxonamy info changes all the time because we learn of hybrids, and sometimes we just learn more about the animals all togeather. How does anyone know these snakes are not compatible until you give it a go?!

Ethics is a whole other ball game. Different people hold to different ethics. I think the ethical thing to do here is breed them, if you produce offspring, breed them to each other and back to one of each species. Record the findings, put them on ice and more on. But thats just me.

Ben

Originally Posted by crazydart

Now you do realize when you are taking about dogs and current dog species, you are talking about about animals that where hybrids hundreds and sometimes thousands of years ago, but through the years have been accepted as regular breeds.

Purebred dogs aren't hybrids. Mutts aren't hybrids. All dogs are Canis familiaris be it a sheep dog or a rat terrier. Breed a sheep dog to a rat terrier and you still have Canis familiaris, not a hybrid. So what are you talking about?