4 heat packs in a box DEAD SNAKES whos to blame

Originally Posted by Ophis

Indians scattered on dawns highway bleeding. Ghosts cloud the young childs fragile egg shell mind.

WTF

First I mean Alfredo, not Mario a few posts back

Second, when I first called Alfredo I told him 3 heat packs were in the box. I thought thats how many there were. Then I dug through the box again, and found a fourth.

Well lets see Im in Omaha. I shipped 2 boxes full of ball pythons this week, both to NY area. My temps here, and there temps there were barely 40 during the day, and teens at night. I used two heat packs in both boxes. All snakes arrived safely.

I admit I wasnt at the shop for first delievery attempt. Would it have changed anything, I doubt it. What if the box had been lost, and not delivered for a second day, then it was my fault because it was lost? I did my best to get the box early. Ive tried to sit at the shop and wait for boxes I thought were coming, you know what happens 9 times out of 10 they werent even shipped that day. As I said I didnt get a tracking nubmer, I had no way to do anything about the box. You honestly think an extra couple hours in a box kills healthy emerald tree boas? Or isnt it just a bit more likely, that any amount of time in a box with 4 heat packs would be damageing to an animals health? I think the second is far more likely.

Its obvious we will no longer be doing business together. I guess Im sol, but others are warned.

Would 3 heat packs have gotten them there safe possibly, cold definately... Emeralds are not ball pythons and if they get a little cold bad stuff can also happen

Originally Posted by Xtreme Reptiles

Would 3 heat packs have gotten them there safe possibly, cold definately... Emeralds are not ball pythons and if they get a little cold bad stuff can also happen

Ok Alfredo thanks for clearing that up for me and thanks for coming out as opposed to your your name being tossed out there waiting you to respond I respect THAT

Originally Posted by Xtreme Reptiles

Would 3 heat packs have gotten them there safe possibly, cold definately... Emeralds are not ball pythons and if they get a little cold bad stuff can also happen

If they get a little hot bad stuff can obviously happens too.

We received a shipment of 6000 crickets with 4 heat packs. It was 0° here in MO at 11:00 when we received them and about that in IL where they came from the night before. Guess what? The crickets were cooked and dead. Shipper agreed that 4 heat packs was too much and sent another shipment to us.

While I understand that to many (and to myself) 924$ is an expensive package. But in all honesty that is a VERY SMALL order for our store.

I have had beardeds and veileds shipped to me in unisulated box on 40 degree days with NO DOAS. Did I like it, no, but it has happened. Its always better to get a little cool in shipping rather then to cook.

Im sorry but I was unable to get to the shop earlier, plain and simple. That being said I have dealt with shipping animals for nearly 10 years now, and as stated have had boxes delayed many days at times, often in the very cold weather. I have NEVER had a box arrive cooked prior to this one.

Alfredo says 3 heat packs is standard, well there were 4. That means someone didnt follow "standards" on there end. Yes in a perfect world I would have been at the shop to recieve the package, but I GUARANTEE the delay did not cause the doas. I have traveled all over this country with animals boxed. I have had stuff shipped in every extreme from every direction, and again I have never had a box cooked. I have also NEVER had a single box shipped to me with 4 heat packs NEVER ONCE before today.

Kiss and make up? I highly doubt that at this point. Should I have not posted here, I dont think so. Honestly from the tone of the emails, and previous problems with packages, I felt my chances of getting a refund were slim to none, and slim walked out the door when I posted here.

But I guess you should all read into it as you will. I hope you never have to deal with the issues I did. I can almost GUARANTEE Alfredo will not send another box of emeralds with 4 heat packs in it again. So I guess atleast something was learned.

When I ship a box I pack it so Im confident it will make atleast 2 days in the box. I ship mon-thursday, so if delayed by a day the shippers will be open. I take into consideration this may happen. As I said, had there not been 4 heat packs in the box, I would have blamed myself. But 4 heat packs spell cook NO IFFS ANDS OR BUTTS in my mind. Lets not forget theese were cb snakes, not imports. They should have handled less then 24 hours in a box no problem. In fact I got one from Alfredo from the same batch last wed around 2 pm we packed it up. We left Alfredos place around 5:30 pm eastern. I had zero heat packs in the box, and the temps in omaha were 20 degrees cooler then today. It took us untill 10:30 central (so add an hour) on thursday to get to the shop. That means that emerald was in the box for 33 1/2 hours.

Originally Posted by Xtreme Reptiles

Funny we shipped out 44 Large boxes yesterday with 3 -40 hour heat packs and 1 -30 hour heat pack all over the US with no Incident? Maybe he may want to add a little more info? Like the night time low in his area was 22 degrees reported high was 45 degrees..(if any one wisheds to verify http://www.weather.com/activities/ot...ml?locid=68132) How about the temps in Memphis where they spent the night, low of 43 degrees high of 46 ...(if you wish to verify http://www.weather.com/activities/ot...locid=USTN0325)... The large 16x16x8 box was our standard large with 1/4" styrophoam, not the thick styro fish boxes that some use which hold much more heat... As of last check today in the month of january we shipped out 293 large boxes all with the exact same amount of heat packs, and 0 have arrived with all animals cooked... some arrived with animals cooler than desired... He is also takeing temp reading of the heat packs indoors at room temps not of a box in transit...He knew the animals were sent priority overnight to his shop, if wasnt planning to be there as early as fed ex why not send it to a more appropiate location? All the snakes didnt arrive dead as he claims either, one was alive upon arrival and then died a bit later... The other 2 appeared to have just died...Here you can see where fed ex shows the delivery attempt
Feb 3, 2005 3:23 PM
Delivered
Omaha, NE
10:15 AM
Delivery exception
OMAHA, NE
Customer not available or business closed
7:45 AM
On FedEx vehicle for delivery
OMAHA, NE
So now shippers have to also bear the burdens of others mistakes? Funny how he first admitted to his error and said he wasnt looking for any compensation? These guys sat in a fed ex truck for an extra 5 hours and 15 min..
Alfredo Veloso

Like I said. Xtreme posted that they shipped with 4 heat packs, 3-40hr and 1-30hr. From TLCs description of the actual heat packs enclosed, there were actually 2-40hr and 2-30hr packs. So NO there was LESS heat in your box than in other boxes.

"People fail to see the faxt that there were 3 heat packs of average temp 108 (the normal one used by everyone) and a smaller one average temp 70 degrees.... we use the smaller one to help balance the box out and after 6 years of doing so have manged to come up with thsi formula.... So in essence there were 3 hot heat packs and one that was a lot cooler and if mickey checks he will see that heat pack has 2 red stripes on it


Alfredo Velsos"

As you can see at one point Alfredo said 3 heat packs. He did not pack the animals himself, so he may not have even truely known how many heat packs were in it.

If he truely were shipping boxes with 4 heat packs to everyone, Im sure someone else will chime in to that fact. As I said I have NEVER before this recieved a box with 4 heat packs in it. Let alone loosely packed in the box.

DUH MY MISTAKE, I MISSED THE SECOND PART IN MY HASTE.

Either way, I still stand by never haveing recieved 4 heat packs in one box before.

Well this soap opera is over, unless Alfredo has anything new to add (as Im sure he likely doesnt) then its just going to die. Speaking of death, the 3rd one is on its door as we speak. Thats 0-6 with xtremes emeralds for me this season. Who knows if the 4th one will eat either, time will only tell.