OK, let's talk about the biggest problem in the business of ball pythons

I found a perfect example today on that other site in the classifieds. http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=439870
Headline of post for sale "male desert ghost/blurry ball". I was curious right away that apparently the snake could either be a $10,000 animal or a $500 animal and the guy who bought it didn't know which. So I read the post.

He said it is captive bred by Ralph Davis. I aksed him about that. He then said (paraphrased), I bought it at a reptile show from a guy who told me Ralph Davis produced it but I do not have a receipt from him or the one from Ralph.

He then posted that info and lowered the price (still no pics) in the same ad it may be a ghost now and that the color is "blurry desert, red blushing black fade." WHAT? I have no idea what that meant and I mentioned to him that he may want to drop the post and figure out what it was that he had. His answer was to post more bizarre text and lower the price again. Now according to him, it may be a dersert ghost, a ghost, or a recessive blurry.

So what is the point of me hurting your brain with this guys info? This is becoming a giant problem for anyone who buys/sells/breeds ball pythons. It is one thing when somebody will clearly post that it is from Africa and has no idea what it is. It is another when you keep changing stories to try to dig yourself out of a hole you made by trying to sell an animal as something it isn't to make money from people who either don't know any better or are too trusting.

Sights will not typically pull ads from people that are guilty of this and that is life. It is kind of natural selection of ball buyers from a Darwin standpoint, but you really need to do your homework and know your stuff for your own protection. There are so many sites on the net where people will have a pic of each animal proven or not and list all the characteristics that set it off as being what it is (example: odd or two colored eyes, strange colored tongue, belly pattern or lack of, head color, etc..). Knowing these traits or markers exist will go a long way to help you weed out the idiots and the thieves for the most part.

I am not a huge proponent on "paperwork" for alot of things. It is great to get hets that come with something in writing from somebody backing them up but if they are proven in the business to be trustworthy that is not the big concern. Guys like the one above are talking about needing paperwork for a visual morph that he bought and can't identify. If I guessed I would say Ralph did not produce it and it is not anything of value and either this character got taken by the guy who sold it to him or he is just throwing out stories to help him rip somebody off. The old saying applies, if it seems too good to be true it probably is. And if it walks like a duck... you know the rest. Anyway guys, do your due dilligence/research and know what you are looking at or getting into.

Excellent post, Evan!

Evan,

I'm not sure if this is the biggest problem, but it's certainly one of the most fustrating. Great post overall, it's definately something for all to be concerned with..

- Vic

Evan, i have seen this type of thing and also that a few years ago when the ch babies started showing up. in large numbers alot of the importers and the pickers in florida started nameing the normal imports. just to charge a few extra dollars.

It got to a point that i did not want to buy captive bred balls from anyone from florida, fearing that what i was really recieving were captive hatched. Those ch babies changed alot of people into liars.

Even to this day. there are still alot of people trying to sell those imported yellow bellies as het. ivorys, even thought they have not been proven to produce Ivorys.

BUYER BEWARE.

I do think that the biggest problem that presents itself to us as breeders of ball pythons, is the fact that we all want a bigger piece of that pie and are over producing these ball pythons big time !

Too many people label a BP some new morph when it is nothing more than a "different" looking normal.

I cannot stand the ads that say "something is going on here" and "I hate to sell it but whoever buys it can prove it out".
If you have what you think is a genuine new morph, why the hell are you selling it? Prove it out and make a LOT more in the long run.

If it's not proven, it's not a morph IMO.

I have a few that I am dinking around with. Maybe they will prove out and maybe not. If not, they will be let go as nothing more than pretty normals. If they do prove out, then I am fortunate.

Too many people try and stick a name and a high price on things.

The best one I have seen lately is the axanthic on KS. It's an import and unproven, but since it looks similiar to a real axanthic, then it must be one. He compares it to his genuine one and says it looks better. Well, if you are so sure it is an axanthic and don't need 2, sell the real one and keep the import.

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

I do think that the biggest problem that presents itself to us as breeders of ball pythons, is the fact that we all want a bigger piece of that pie and are over producing these ball pythons big time !

Unfortunately Ed, there is nothing we can do about that. In a previous post, I pointed out that since the 1980's when I started keeping snakes i've seen fads come and go. The corn fad in the '80's, the Boas in the '90's (and somewhat now), and now the Balls into today. And like anything else, as these fads come and go more and more people buy the animals that sell to hopefully yield some profits.

I think one of the biggest problems is the determination of "value" for a given animal. Let's use the Spider Ball for an example. When Kevin McCurly released the first few into the populas they were astromomically priced. Now, you can easily pick one up for about $1000. Why? Simply supply and demand. Spiders, Mojave's, Pastels, etc. are co-dom genes so when there is a huge supply of animals with somewhat steady demand the price is driven down. Now a simple-recessive morph like the Albino has retained it's value for some time, and will continue to because it's harder to make more of them....

I'm not going to get into all the specifics on this subject, as i'm sure this has been discussed in greater details more than anything. But what I will say is that the Ball Market in my humble opinion is still strong, and will remain that way for some time. You just have to be aware that some animals will decrease in value, while others will retain theirs for many years due to simple supply and demand, genetic characteristics, and many other contributory factors.

- Vic

Vic., I agree with your post. especially when you say that the ball python market is still strong. What i have been seeing for awhile now is an influx of younger hobbiest, that are very enthusiastic about adding new ball pythons into their growing collections. not unlike you and I were years ago. difference is these younger people now have credit cards to make purchases with and do. yes the ball python market is alive and well. with the now lower prices, that makes it even better in terms of a younger collector being able to afford the bp morph of his dreams.

Indeed, Ed. (although I do have to point out that his dreams can also be HER dreams as well)
The ball python market will be as strong as the people who love the breed. Those who choose to be educated about them will prosper, and those who are in for a quick buck may become sorely dissapointed.
Fads are what they are.
I honestly jumped on the bandwagon too (which most did at some point in their lives), but I have not succumbed to what most people do as a main profit venture. I do it cause I find joy in it. That should be the bottom line.

And as for the fake morphs, they come around every day. I just know I will never be the one to buy into it, and most people who know better won't either.

There are people out there who don't, and that is who these people prey on. It is what it is. Just keep your arms and heart open to people with questions, answer honestly, and we will have a better buisness in the long run.

are far from the "biggest" problem in the Ball Business. Sure, the ads are annoying, but once the name gets seared into your mind as one of the
Dipsh!ts selling animals they know nothing about, you just do not open anymore of their ads. There are about 10 companies that I do not even bother to look at their ads anymore....something about Het Spiders, Het Fires, Axanthics that are obviously normal, or at least not worth the price, fake Pied Hets, people that put a name to describe EVERY CH Ball they have for sale......annoying, yes, biggest problem in Balls, I do not think so.

Dave