Is this industry really getting depressing, or is it just me? - FaunaClassifieds
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SOUND OFF!!! Ever have something REALLY bugging you and nowhere to vent about it? Well, this is the place. It does not have to be fauna oriented at all! Get it off your chest right here.

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Old 08-18-2003, 10:50 PM   #1
Is this industry really getting depressing, or is it just me?

Maybe I'm suffering from BOI shock.

Maybe it's my Midwest upbringing. I've always been told I'm too rigid.

Maybe I need a drink, or a reality check.

Whatever the cause, I've spent the last several days feeling totally bummed out about the reptile hobby/trade/industry.

Where did all the scammers come from? When did stealing from people by selling misrepresented/sick/fictitious animals become all the rage?

It's not just the obvious criminals. Hell, those are in every walk of life. The faux roofers who show up in towns after tornadoes or hail storms and take money then disappear. The used car salesmen who can rig a major malfunction to not show itself for 500 or so miles then sell "as is". The "work from home" scams that elicit money from the people who can least afford it on the hope that they can overcome their lack of transportation/ education/employability by stuffing envelopes. Yep, there's evil all around.

Yet, I've never felt so *associated* with it. True, I know some wonderful people in the herp world; no doubt about that. It seems, though, that every time I turn around, there's one more "good" guy gone bad, one more person *intentionally* mistreated, one more animal horribly neglected.

It's enough to make you want to withdraw from the whole lot of it, stop buying, stop selling, stop breeding, stop getting involved with other people in this hobby.

I'm not saying there are no good folks in the hobby; hell, I've met lots of them. However, is there any other business that is so full of bad apples? I mean, honestly, this is an embarrassment to the hobby itself.

Is it just me?
Old 08-18-2003, 11:17 PM   #2
I have been wondering the samething myself.I mean heck it seems like everyday it just gets worse and worse.I am fairly new to the breeding part of reptiles, but I wonder if I even need to mess with trying to breed reptiles.I am scared to death that when the time comes and I do have babies to sell it will be so hard to sell them for all the bad guys out there making us good guys look horrible.

Its seems like everything gets good for a while then someone will get burnt really bad and it makes me stop and think why in the heck did I ever get involved in the reptile world.I love my snakes!!!!I consider them part of the family.But then you get to reading the BOi(not saying the BOi is bad)(cause I love the BOI it has saved me a bunch of money)and wonder why in the heck folks want to ruin the fun and all in herps.I just dont understand.I guess they have that all mighty dollar sign flashing if there eyes.
Old 08-21-2003, 06:33 PM   #3
Hey Guys,

Don't despair. There are a lot of really crappy people in this business because it IS so easy to lie and steal in it. But there has to be some good guys, that would be you two among others, to balance it out.

If you quit who will benifit from your standards and animals?

The answer is, quite simply, no one but the bad guys themselves. It's sort of like we're in a pitched battle against them. Those of us who try to do right and those who don't. We can only succeed by doing what we think and know is right even in the face of such horrors as upchuck exotics and their like.

There is a weeding process, alive and existing on it's own, that will eventually filter them out, just look at the gubitz character. He's had the same sorry bunch of animals for sale for the last three months. Word got out and he's hurting for it. It is the same for others like him. It sometimes takes a long time. So, hang in there, talk about the good and the bad, and wait with eager anticipation for those eggs to hatch or females to drop. It doesn't really get much better than that.

Wes Pollock
Old 08-27-2003, 08:46 PM   #4

I have to agree with Wes here, the scammers are going to end up being gone. Its the good guys that are going to be staying and keeping this hobby going. Terese at the very end of you post you used the term "hobby" by my feeling a hobby is there for your enjoyment and for you to share with those around you.

By keeping it as a hobby you are keeping the animals important and customers first and your reputation is more important than the dollar. I know for many of you its a living and for that I commend you and admire you for doing something you like as an occupation. But even as a business your priority is for the good of the animals and without the good guys those of us who are learning wouldnt have anyone to show us the right way.

Dont give up, your efforts might not be acknowledged however you longevity in the hobby will speak for itself long after the "scammers" are gone.
Old 08-27-2003, 09:20 PM   #5
It's probably just this time of year, when I have much more to do than I can ever realistically accomplish each day, but damn this gets to me too. So much so, that I have to wonder if having the BOI is such a hot idea after all.

Is it really good for the industry as a whole to have all this dirty laundry exposed in the BOI available for all to see? All it would take is for legislators to see the crap going on and start thinking, "Well, it looks to me that society in general would be better off without this sort of business activity at all."

I don't know. Maybe it's time for a vote of confidence poll for the BOI. But heck, even with over 5,000 registered members, I would be surprised if even 100 people would bother to vote in such a poll. Now why is that? What are people coming to this site for?
Old 08-27-2003, 11:17 PM   #6
Darin Chappell
"Well, it looks to me that society in general would be better off without this sort of business activity at all."

That's certainly one way a legislator could view things here, no doubt. However, it would be a very nieve legislator who thinks that this type of scamming, lyig, and dishonesty is unique to the herp business. For the most part, the only thing that separates the scammers in our little neck of the woods, and those at Enron are the MBA's.

I think the sincere legislator would look at our attempt at self-policing as a positive step toward a true marketplace of ideas, the type upon which our economic, social, and political systems are SUPPOSED to be based. Show me another hobby, show me another INDUSTRY that uses the mere power of peer pressure to sway would be bad guys toward the paths of good business! Show me another website wherein the owner is willing to allow his future competitors (on whatever scale) come and learn to be better at competing against him!! Show me another community in the business world where all of the members wanting to get ahead in dollars and cents, are willing to put self-intrest aside to come to the aid of THEIR competitors too!!!

Shut this hobby/business/industry down because we have the courage to examine ourselves and try to police ourselves so that outsiders (the govt.) don't have to? Not very likely. Anything is possible, but politicians look for problems to fix, squeeky wheels to grease...They don't usually come in where they are not expressly invited. They're like vampires that way!

They may shut us down because of the Melissa Kaplans of the industry, or because of a sort of Monkey Pox virus syndrome, but the BOI is doing nothing but helping us all. Keep it as long as you can, and perhaps someone else will be there if you need to pass the torch!

Now, let's hear from the rest of the 99 . . .
Old 08-28-2003, 12:41 AM   #7

Well I dont know that my vote would count for much but I love the BOI I visit it each and everyday.It has saved me a bunch of time and headaches.And alot of money.I am still a rookie to all of this stuff but I am learning.And I agree with Darin its takes a big man to have a site as great as this one.To let everyone in untill they screw up.I just cant say enough for this site!!!!!!! I do still look at KS but the majority of my time is spent here.I was done buying snakes off the internet till I found the BOI I had gotten burnt on some snakes and it just about ruined it for me.And it took sometime before I would buy online but thanks to the BOI I have gained hope again.And have bought 20 snakes online in the last 6 to 8 months.

All I can say is Rich you are the man!!!!!I look upto guys like you and hope one day I will be able to do as much good as you have.
Old 08-29-2003, 03:54 PM   #8

This is one of the best things to ever happen to this industry. The fact that I can ask a question and have someone from all the way across the country, that I've never met or had any dealings with at all, and that such a person is a potential competitor as Darin said, answer my question to the BEST of their knowledge and ability is pretty near priceless.

Don't let the rotten apples like upchuck ruin it for you. Sure there's a bit of a foul odour from some of the posts, but by far I think it's a pretty sweet place to have available.

I guess I'm # 3 to say keep it up, I think you're doing fine at providing a much needed service. It's too bad we don't have a BOI for all industries.

Take this morning for example. Last week I moved my TV and broke the cable attachment whatchamacallit off the back. Today I went in search of a place to fix it. I had my 10 year old daughter with me. The first place we went into was obviously a busy shop, lots of TVs and other electricla epuipment being repaired. or so I thought at first glance. The guy comes out, I tell him what I did and ask how much to fix it. Then the run around started, it may be this peice, it may be that one, I may have to send to factory for new piece because I cannot repair it here. Then I noticed that a lot of the stuff he had for sale was sort of dusty, like it had been there for a while. And, I just didn't like the feel I got from this guy, which is funny because when I got in the car my Daughter asked me if I liked this guy. I didn't. I had the TV in the car and didn't even take it in to show him. His estimate went from a minimum 75.00 to, in his words"125.00 maybe a little more" and needless to say we left at that point.

The next place went to said 40.00 to 60.00 but sold me the peice they thought was broken and told me to try to fix it myself, it should be no problem. It turns out that the piece that I broke is not a simple fix but I will be going back to the Radio Shack that tried to save me money, not the guy who tried to rip me off.

Now if there was a TV repair BOI I would be on it in a heartbeat to tell of my experiances.

Rich, you have enabled all of us that keep reptiles to tell of the good and bad repair guys out there. I really appreciate it and hope you keep it up for a long time.

Wes Pollock
Old 08-29-2003, 05:25 PM   #9
I think the problem is the scammers get so much more attention on the BOI than the good guy posts. For every "Upstate" or Neil Gubitz or Aboreals of the Rainforest there are hundreds of small time hobbyists that truly enjoy what they do and put their critters and their code of ethics way before the almighty $, and get about 10 views, vs the hundreds that hit the bad guy threads. I asked Rich at the 01 MARS show if he thought the BOI was a real pain to keep up and he was very much in favor for all the good it does. I am glad today that that still holds true (the BOI). for Ms terese, here's a smile for ya...I made my first sale a coupla weeks ago to a very knowledgeable 13 year old who has really done his homework. Drove 30 miles to meet him and his grandfather for a $45.00 sale...and it felt GREAT! Have a great Labor Day weekend folks and keep the positivity going...peace, Chris
Old 08-29-2003, 10:50 PM   #10
It's too bad we don't have a BOI for all industries.
You know, I don't know how many times I have had that same thought myself. Just a day or two ago, I had someone I was going to buy a gun from really kick me in the teeth with the manner in which they handled it. It got me mad enough that I started thinking about setting up a BOI and a related site for guns. Not that I need something else to do with my time, but it's one of the few things I have as a hobby, and one of the darned few things I will take time out of my busy schedule in order to get into a discussion about with someone.

I have sent off money numerous times to someone and there was absolutely no way for me to check up on them. I suppose it would be a wasted amount of time and effort on my part, but darn I am tempted to do something like that!

I have to wonder how dirty the laundry is in that sort of business compared with what we see in this reptile business.

Heck, I own the domain name Maybe someday I could set it up to cover multiple types of businesses. Wonder how many threatened lawsuits I would get then?

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