At what point does a false BOI thread justify Libel?

Originally Posted by Jesse Van Atta

BTW Deb..... Do you live here? It really seems that way. Just curious. I hate to compare you to Chris the troll, but there are some strong similarities. You just seem a little more methodical, and a little less warped.

You are barking up the wrong tree my friend.

Originally Posted by sfconstrictors

You are barking up the wrong tree my friend.

Fact ...oh and

There's obviously varying opinions on what constitutes "lineage papers". There's varying opinions on whether anyone lied, or if they simply forgot and said they would send the papers when they got home. There was lies on the side of the OP with how long times were and whether he recieved anything, vs whether he recieved paperwork not up to his standards.

All this opinions mean that 'sure' someone can sue. Can they WIN? Probably not. Since most of this is opinions and the sue-r would have to prove damage, and there's truth on both sides, and untruth on both sides, any judge would 'probably' throw the case out. So it would depend on what Judge you ended up with, whether you would get a lawsuit heard and/or decided on.

I've been around Fauna a while, and while my opinions often are the same as other long time Fauna members, they are not always the same. While I agree with Deb in many spots, I don't agree with her always, just like I don't agree with anyone here always. In this particular case, I don't agree with her definition of "lineage papers". That doesn't mean I'm going to start wailing conspiracy theories of a cabal of those "on the inside" who all oppose everything I believe in. Nor does it mean I'll insult her for having a different opinion. Sometimes folks have differing opinions and it doesn't mean one is WRONG and the other is RIGHT. It means there's different ways to look at a situation. That's something that grown-ups understand. You can disagree without either of you being wrong, and without it being a fight or descending to insults.

Originally Posted by Jesse Van Atta

I am bothered. This was someone's livelyhood. And you roll eyes.

My questions here were legit, and Dennis did a great job to answer them. I completely get the stance of the website.

I also get your stance as well. Anything Deb says gets a big .

Do you guys have matching "Fauna Police" t-shirts? I suggest one for everyone in your little club.

No, no one agrees with me, all the time. They sometimes disagree and we post our opinions and we may ASK the other person WHY they came to that conclusion (if we have some respect for their reasoning abilities).

It is unfortunate, that some of us/I have a habit of picking words that will most likely get under someone's skin and this can sometimes help (if it causes them take a second look at how their perception can affect the outcome of whatever they are attempting to do). At other times, it just gets me/whoever enemies...and that's ok, too, because I actually like sharing ideas with people that think for themselves and have something to share rather than "most people are doing it" or, "that's my friend."

I don't ask many people how they came to a conclusion when they post, because in most instances, it's obvious. But this in no way means that I think my way is the only way or the right way.

I have explained my perception of what the word Lineage means and by dictionary standards it's certainly past the PARENTS. Examples of the word usage do show that more than one line is referred:

Examples of LINEAGE

1. <his Italian lineage was very important to him>
2. <it is now generally accepted that the lineage of Thomas Jefferson includes black as well as white members>

Now, if some of the community want to change the meaning of the dictionary definition to apply to only Parentage of the product (Parentage can mean lineage, too...but is still generally referred as going back a few generations) then there should be some kind of a standard established to prevent these kinds of misunderstandings. Because if I were (and others of like-mind) to ask for Lineage papers, we will certainly be expecting more than the parents pictures.

We can either learn from this experience, or we can just be angry at everyone that didn't think like ourselves.

Originally Posted by Jesse Van Atta

BTW Deb..... Do you live here? It really seems that way. Just curious. I hate to compare you to Chris the troll, but there are some strong similarities.

That is hateful and shocking, and you owe Deborah an apology. Leave Chris's name out of this as well. It is OK to have differences of opinions, even strong differences, but let's be courteous to one another.
Deborah is thoughtful and reasonable, and from what I have seen, is out to better the hobby.
Were we all like that, the industry would be at a better place.

Originally Posted by Wolfy-hound

There's obviously varying opinions on what constitutes "lineage papers". There's varying opinions on whether anyone lied, or if they simply forgot and said they would send the papers when they got home. There was lies on the side of the OP with how long times were and whether he recieved anything, vs whether he recieved paperwork not up to his standards.

All this opinions mean that 'sure' someone can sue. Can they WIN? Probably not. Since most of this is opinions and the sue-r would have to prove damage, and there's truth on both sides, and untruth on both sides, any judge would 'probably' throw the case out. So it would depend on what Judge you ended up with, whether you would get a lawsuit heard and/or decided on.

I've been around Fauna a while, and while my opinions often are the same as other long time Fauna members, they are not always the same. While I agree with Deb in many spots, I don't agree with her always, just like I don't agree with anyone here always. In this particular case, I don't agree with her definition of "lineage papers". That doesn't mean I'm going to start wailing conspiracy theories of a cabal of those "on the inside" who all oppose everything I believe in. Nor does it mean I'll insult her for having a different opinion. Sometimes folks have differing opinions and it doesn't mean one is WRONG and the other is RIGHT. It means there's different ways to look at a situation. That's something that grown-ups understand. You can disagree without either of you being wrong, and without it being a fight or descending to insults.

I agree. All apologies to Deb and Amanda. Chris is still a troll. I was/am not mad, rather caught up. It happens to me every once in a while.

It is one thing to express an opinion. It is another to try to hammer it in to the disagreeing parties. I knew better and posted anyway, just like quite a few others did. Apologies to all.

On lineage, foreverboas style, any animal I have can be trace through pics on our site easily all the way back to the animals I purchased to produced them. Any customer of mine I tell them to save them all for their records. It would be nice if everybody did this, but unrealistic. Lineage does go beyond the parents, but many times the only proof is verbal, and worth the word of the one who gave it. I would expect a customer who expected something like that to have it established in writing at least through emails before money changed hands.

Originally Posted by Jesse Van Atta

I agree. All apologies to Deb and Amanda. Chris is still a troll. I was/am not mad, rather caught up. It happens to me every once in a while.

It is one thing to express an opinion. It is another to try to hammer it in to the disagreeing parties. I knew better and posted anyway, just like quite a few others did. Apologies to all.

On lineage, foreverboas style, any animal I have can be trace through pics on our site easily all the way back to the animals I purchased to produced them. Any customer of mine I tell them to save them all for their records. It would be nice if everybody did this, but unrealistic. Lineage does go beyond the parents, but many times the only proof is verbal, and worth the word of the one who gave it. I would expect a customer who expected something like that to have it established in writing at least through emails before money changed hands.

Apology accepted....moving on...


to the bolded. That would certainly reduce any forthcoming conflicts in case anyone else every asked for "Lineage" papers. Breeders can go a bit beyond the request and provide other information that may pertain to the animal...it doesn't hurt anyone.

Why do you think it "unrealistic?" We already have had quite a few reports (BOI) of big name breeders ripping off people (with their word). What is unrealistic about any breeders that were aware of the issue that arose taking steps to ensure that THEY did take things a step beyond providing only pictures of parentage (if they had it)?

[quote=deborahbroadus;1377651]Apology accepted....moving on...


Same for me. No hard feelings whatsoever.

How can you say what my attempt was Jesse?You dont even know me. It was not with malicious intent.Just to clarify to everyone.
It was what happened and that was that.
I was not looking to ruin anyone.
I had and said nothing about quality of his boa's! I went there for the fact of the heading.
You were not there or on the phone when he promised me the lineage papers.
I'm sorry you took offense to me posting the ad against your friend,but he should have just sent what he said to ME he would.We talked a few times via phone and he knew and had what was asked.And i believe most breeders have lineage of their boa's.Or very easy to make it since they have grandparent boa's still breeding.And some even farther back.
I was not looking to hurt anyone,just was informing what happened to me on here with a seller!
sorry to come back to this,but i hate being called a trouble maker when i didnt start the issues in the 1st place.
Plus i didnt know this thread was being mad by Jesse.
Although as much as he has complained i should have known it wouldnt stop at the ad i created.

I