Feeding Gargoyle Gecko diet to a Leacheanus

I recently bought 2 bottles of Gargoyle Gecko diet beacuse I had planned on getting a GGG, but instead I ended up getting the Leachie. So, can I feed the GGD to my Leachie?

Thanks!

The nutritional analysis is virtually identical.

Gargoyle Gecko Diet:

Crude Protein (Min) 20.0%

Crude Fat (Min) 3.5%

Crude Fiber (Max) 10.0%

Moisture (Max) 8.0%

Ash 6.0%


Leachianus Diet:

Crude Protein (Min) 20.0%

Crude Fat (Min) 3.5%

Crude Fiber (Max) 10.0%

Moisture (Max) 8.0%

Ash 6.0%

Ingredients listed on the T-Rex site are the same for both diets:

Ingredients:
This is a quick breakdown of the ingredients used in the Superfoods. Dried Banana Powder: From the human food ingredients industry. This is fresh dried and powdered Banana. It us used in the foods as a primary attractant. The gecko diets have as much banana as real banana’s. Huh? You say.. Fresh Banana’s are about 85 % water, which leaves 15% dried banana. So if you take 15 grams of Banana and mix it with 85 grams of water, you will have something that is the equivalent of pureed banana. So if we are making a dry formula which contains 15% banana powder, it has as much banana flavor as fresh banana does. This is one of the keys that make the foods so palatable to the geckos. Dried Honey Powder: From the human food ingredients industry. The sweet taste of honey is irresistible to such nectar loving geckos as Rhacodactylus and Phelsuma. It is the second key ingredient to flavoring the foods and making them palatable to geckos. Honey is a natural food for many reptiles, and provides an excellent source of carbohydrates. Hempseed Flour and Meal : : From the human food ingredients industry. Hempseed meal provides both high quality protein, and fat. The amino acid profile of hempseed is one of the highest quality in the plant kingdom . The hempseed is used in the diets as the primary source of fat. Hempseed contains the highest ratio of EFA’s (essential fatty acids) available (over 80%) and the best ratio of omega 3, omega 6, and omega 9 (GLA) It surpasses even Flax seed when it comes to the balance and percentage of EFA’s. Bee Pollen: : From the human food ingredients industry Bee pollen is one of natures most complete foods. Containing Protein, Fat, Minerals, Trace Minerals, and Vitamins. It is also a natural food for all kinds of omnivorous, and herbivorous reptiles. Fig Powder: : From the human food ingredients industry Fig is another natural attractant for Reptiles, but in our foods, its primary job is to provide a good balanced source of soluble and insoluble fiber. Fiber is often overlooked in many diets, but it is a very important ingredient. Fiber helps clean the gut through friction against the intestinal wall.It can help flush internal parasites from the gut. It aids in the production of a firmer, drier stool. ( a good thing for keepers) Whey Protein Isolate. (replaces calcium caseinate in early diets) Whey Protein Isolate is a processed (we use cold processed whey Isolate) byproduct of the cheese industry. It is commonly referred to as the most bio available source of protein available on the planed for humans, and is the Protein of choice for body builders and athletes alike. It surpasses egg protein in bio availability. It is also the most expensive source of isolated protein available. We use an isolated source of protein in our feeds because we just don’t have “room” to get the levels of protein in our feeds with the inclusion levels we want of all the other ingredients. Whey Isolate is about 94% protein, so we can use it in small amounts to bump the protein level in a particular diet. We have studied growth rates using many sources of protein, and whey is the winner hands down. Brewers Yeast: Brewers Yeast, like Bee Pollen, is another of natures “Super Foods” it provides an excellent source of protein, and the most concentrated source of the B complex vitamins in their natural forms available. Wheat Germ: Wheat Germ is an excellent source of Tocopherols (Vitamin E) and provides a great source of other vitamins and minerals. The product we use has been defatted for increased shelf life. Calcium Carbonate: The primary source of Calcium for the foods. Dicalcium Phosphate. Primary source of Phosphorous for foods. Spirulina Algae: Spirulina is another of natures “superfoods” It contains an excellent balance of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and trace elements. We use it primarily for its high levels of Beta-Carotene. (the highest natural source) Beta Carotene is transformed by the body into Vitamin A, and it is converted on an “as needed” basis. This helps avoid problems associated with excess preformed vitamin A in diets. RoseHips Powder: One of natures highest sources of natural Vitamin C, It contains the full spectrum of vitamin C, unlike synthetic Vitamin C which is only Ascorbic Acid. Kelp Meal: Kelp is included to provide a natural ( but nearly trace amount) source of Iodine. It also happens to be one of the highest source of chelated minerals and trace elements. Haemotococcus Algae: Is included because it is the highest natural source of Astaxanthan on the planet. This part of the Carotene complex, is responsible for the red pigmentation in shellfish It is what turns a lobster red when you cook it It is what makes a Flamingo Pink, It is what makes Salmon meat pink. It is natures source of red pigment, and it is rarely found in commercial diets. Marigold Extract: Is one of natures highest sources of yellow pigment. It is used for example to color the yolks of chickens in commercial farms that would otherwise not have the color found in free range birds. It is also the one of the greatest sources of the carotenoid lutein, a key ingredient necessary for healthy vision. Rosemary Extract: Known for its anti oxidant, anti bacterial, and anti fungal properties, is included to increase shelf life and freshness of the foods. Yucca Extract is used as a digestive aid and to reduce the odor of feces. Natural Tochopherols: these are used as a natural anti oxidant to increase shelf life and freshness of product. We use no synthetic chemicals in our feeds (most others do) Probiotics: We use a special blend of bacteria to aid in the digestion process by providing live bacteria to help break down food and provide digestive enzymes. Vitamin Premix: We include a custom blend of Vitamins to insure and balance the natural ones provided in the ingredients. Of most importance, are Vitamin A, and Vitamin D-3. Vitamin A is available in two forms. Preformed vitamin A in nature is only found in animals, not plants. It is stored primarily in the liver. It is also available in a synthetic version ( Vitamin A Acetatate, or Retinol ) Vitamin A can also be synthesized by most organisms from Beta Carotene. The exception is true carnivores like cats, who can only utilize preformed Vitamin A because they have evolved to not use plant material in their diet and get all they need from the animals they feed on. As far as Herps go…. We don’t really know if they all, or some, have the ability to convert Beta Carotene to Vitamin A. It would be logical, that they can, and most research to date supports this theory. Insects contain very little Preformed Vitamin A, and low levels of Beta Cerotene (from plant material in the gut) Many plants contain high levels of Beta Carotene. It would be logical to assume that omnivorous herps are able to convert Beta Carotene. It would also be logical to assume that purely insectivorous herps with very little availability of either source, have evolved to thrive on relatively low levels. Most bird diets and supplements have inclusion rates of Preformed Vitamin A (It is usually measured in its relation to Vitamin D-3) of 10 parts A to 1 Part D-3. These diets and supplements primarily use Preformed A rather than Beta Carotene because of cost, and it seems to work just fine for birds. Herps on the other hand have shown a history of being susceptible to high levels and have shown toxicity related symptoms. Our approach in the diets is to use a low level of Preformed A just in case there is a synthesis issue with some species, (4 to 1 ratio), and an issue with adaptation to low levels where 10 to one could be too much.We provide lots of Beta Carotene (from Spirulina) that can be converted at will to A (in theory) Until further research is done, I believe this is the best way to make sure that a good source of A is available to the animals.

Yep, they are identical :-)

Although they are very similar they are still different and the leachie will benefit from the leachie diet more. If the leachie is young and growing it wouldnt hurt as there is more protein in the gargoyle diet then in the crested or leachie diets. I feed gargoyle diet to all my 0-6 month crested until they are subadults, but always feed leachie diet to my leachies as I do have it available.

I would say use it until it runs out and switch to leachie diet. It may get the runs when you do switch, like my crested do but will soon switch to a nice formed "poop". Just my .02
Shawn McVay
WWW.StickyFeetExotics.COM

Hi Shawn-

So what exactly is the difference between the two diets? I can't find a single difference but I must be missing something :-)

I think the actual portions of each ingrediant is different. I do think they are made of the same ingrediants just differing amounts. I have talked to allen a few times about the diets and he is the one how told me about the gargoyle diet on babies and juves and not crested since I had been using crested for 6 months prior to that conversation. I dont know the exact details, but when I mix the three diets I can tell the difference in color and a slight texture difference.

Ok, I gotcha. I had noticed a long time ago that when you look at the ingredients and nutritional analasis, all three diets are identical in every way except the crested gecko diet contains defatted wheat germ meal rather than wheat germ meal. Which simply means that the crested gecko diet is lower in vitamin E (vitamin E is a fat-soluble vitamin). I just assumed that going by the labels, the leachianus and gargoyle were identical.

If the leachie is young and growing it wouldnt hurt as there is more protein in the gargoyle diet then in the crested or leachie diets.

According to the T-Rex web site, all three (leachie, crested, gargoyle) contain 20% crude protein. I cannot find more protein anywhere.

Is there protein other than crude protein?

I cant answer that with more than a guess. As far as the answer goes. Allen is who made it and he told me he uses the gargoyle diet because it has more protein. I am only going by what was told to me. I figured since he was smart enough to make it. He was definetly smart enough to tell me how to use it. As far as your question....I dont even know what crude protein is.
Shawn
WWW.StickyFeetExotics.COM

Yeah, I honestly do not see how they can be any different, if the ingredients and analasis are exactly the same. Crude protein is based on a laboratory nitrogen analysis, from which the total protein content in a feedstuff can be calculated by multiplying the nitrogen (N) concentration by 100/16 or 6.25. This is from the assumption that nitrogen is derived from protein containing 16% nitrogen (AOAC, 1984). However, some portion of the N in most feeds is found as non-protein nitrogen (NPN) and, therefore, the value calculated by multiplying N x 6.25 is referred to as crude rather than true protein. True protein is made up of amino acids. However, crude protein is a poor predictor of the productive energy value of a feed.

And no, I am not smart enough to just know that, I did some searching on the web! I use the Leachianus diet on all my Rhacs, however I use it more as a supplement by mixing it in with baby food. I usually add a "pinch" of calcium carbonate every couple of feedings and sometimes a pinch of Herptivite, just to be on the safe side. I do like the Rhac diets and would recommend them. My opinion (take it for what it's worth LOL) is that a varied diet is best for our geckos and that is why I feed equal amounts of bugs and baby food mixed with the Rhac diet. I also give my Rhacodactylus chopped bananas, papaya and other fruits sometimes too. My leachies LOVE bananas!

edit * I also give my leachianus pinky mice once or twice a month. Also, discoid roaches are their favorite bug food!