Cryptosporidium epidemic with my corns?

Hey, I hope someone can give me some good advice. I think I have a cryptosporidium outbreak and have lost several corns because of this.

Let me start at the beginning: in the last three months I have lost 5 snakes - a striped red albino, a motley red albino, a blizzard, an anethrystic and a ruby-eyed ghost. All five of these snakes were purchased within a three week period last fall, but only two of them from the same breeder. The symptoms are as follows: all snakes are voracious eaters, even up until a day or two before death, however they do not seem to grow at all. I have noticed that none of the snakes that have died have shed properly - they all seem to shed in strips and the majority of the time I end up 'helping' the shedding process with a snake bath and a paper towel. About a week before the snake(s) die, I notice they start to appear dehydrated - although, again, they do drink and do eat normally. About 42 hours before death, the snake(s) become listless and their tales appear floppy. The ruby-eyed ghost developed odd looking bulges in her stomach, giving her the appearance on having eaten when she hadn't.

I have consulted with a local vet who checked out my Blizzard and determined the snake probably had a 'genetic' problem and diagnosed 'failure to thrive' as the reason for it's illness. Because of the size of the snake at the time, no medication could be offered.

My snakes are given fresh water daily, and their terrariums are cleaned of substrate on a bi-weekly basis (visible feces removed daily), and cleaned completely with a bleach/water solution once a month. They are fed weekly, with the littlest snakes getting two pinkies each. I use Reptile Relief Tick Spray on a paper towel on a regular basis (once every two weeks) to ensure that my snakes don't have mites. Temperature ranges from mid 60s on the cool side low 80s on the warm side, with hides on both ends. Only the smallest of my snakes have been affected.

I lost three snakes the end of January / early Feb within three weeks, despite my visit to the vets. Through research, it was confirmed the two of the snakes came from the same breeder and there was a possibility that the third snake could have been bred from stock from the breeder of the other two. Based on this knowledge, I trusted the vet and chalked up the experience to a run of extremely bad luck.

About a month ago, my anethrystic snake died suddenly without warning. She had displayed none of the previous symptoms of any of my other snakes and her death was a complete shock. When I went back through my records, I realized that the four snakes who had died had all been purchased within a couple of weeks of each other. I called the vet, who basically said that it is very common for corn snake morphs to die due to inbreeding and genetic issues. However, I determined to keep an exceptionally close eye on the rest of my snakes - especially the ones purchased from end of September to end of October last year.

About three days ago, my ruby-eyed ghost started displaying symptoms of lethargy and dehydration. With the help of a friend very familiar with reptiles, we managed to get liquids into her. This morning, I noticed the distended belly. By this afternoon, she was dead.

I have two other snakes displaying symptoms of dehydration and listnessless, even though they are drinking fresh water and eating - both had a pinky this morning, as a matter of fact. I have removed all substrate from the terrariums and replaced with paper towel. All feeding containers, water bowls, hidey caves etc., have been sterilized, all pieces of wood in the terriarims have been thrown out. Everytime I touch a snake I scrub my hands and even change my clothes in order to hopefully avoid transmitting whatever this virus is they have.

A friend from Florida who I know through another forum suggest to me this afternoon that they might have Cryptospoidium and suggested a few websites for me to read - I have done this and am very fearful that he is correct in his assumption. However, none of these sites seemed to indicate how/where a snake might get this parasite from and none seemed to offer much info. in ways of getting rid of it.

I could take the snakes in question to the vet again and have called and left a message for her to let me know what she can do if this is what they have, however based on the initial assesments from this vet I don't know if I would trust any diagnosis she might give.

I am literally sick with worry - I have several corns, including the corns I was given as replacements for the ones I lost. I have been taking very good care of them, and following all recommendations. The snakes I bought initially (last spring) are growing well and appear very healthy - it's just the snakes I have purchased/received since the end of September that seem to be having problems.

Does this sound like Cryptosporidium to any of you? Do you have any suggestions as to what else I could do in order to save / prevent the death of my other snakes? Any advice would be appreciated.

Are you sure the snakes are drinking? Just because they have access to water and the water level goes down (evaporation) doesn't mean the animal is drinking it.

I always place babies in a deli cup with some water at least twice a week. Almost every one will drink and drink, like they haven't had any water even though they had free access to it in their cages.

I work at a small pet store and I have had literally hundreds of people bring in their sick looking baby snakes and all have said the snakes drink. Yet when I place the animal in a deli cup w/water the snake drinks like there is no tomorrow.

The vet can test for cryptosporidium, can't he? If so, I'd have that done.

They are definately drinking. I make sure of it, so I know for a fact that this is not their problem. As I mentioned, I have left a message for the vet re: possible crypto., but haven't heard back yet. This vet is the only 'reptile' vet in my area, and as it hasn't already been suggested she test for that or at the very least test a stool sample (which, I've gathered from reading the boards is fairly standard) I don't think I want to place a lot of trust in that arena. Also, these snakes aren't really babies any more. The youngest snake effected was hatched early September, so she's already seven months old. She just looks like a baby because, despite her voracious appetite, she has not grown at a rate consistent to what she should be, and still fits easily in a deli cup.

I know about crypto. If it is then boil all water before placing it in the cage after you cleanse and boil all the water bowls. Chlorine (bleach) will NOT kill crypto in the concentrations you can use around reptiles. Keep boiling the water untill you can invest in a quality RO system and them upkeep it on the manufacturers recommended basis. If you search on the web or call your local government agency (Coop extention?) they should be able to test a water sample for crypto.
hope this helps
Bill

Do you live in the part of Canada just north of Minnesota/Central Great Lakes?

I'm about 2 hours north of Toronto, and none of my reptiles get tap water, as the water here sucks and is very hard. Instead, they get fresh cooler water, (double filtration osmosis whatever). When it was first suggested to me the crypto. might be the problem, I got rid of all existing water dishes, feeding tongs, and feeding containers as I didn't want to take any chances. I am now rotating the water dishes twice daily, with all water dishes getting sterilized between uses. I feel like I am running a MASH unit here for my snakes - I was up 'til four in the morning last night, just researching and watching them.

Still no response from the vet, so I don't know if it is crypto. for sure, but from what I've managed to find it's really the only thing that fits.

Did any of the snakes that died regurgitate at all recently? That is one of the classic symptoms of crypto. With the history of poor sheds and the dehydration signs, you may need to monitor and adjust the humitity in your snakes vivs. And if you do not have a problem with mites, you should stop all mite treatments. I'm not familiar with the spray you are using, but treating young snakes every 2 weeks when there is not a problem may be a potential problem, especially if an insecticide is in the spray. You may also want to raise the temps a bit. Mid 60's is a bit low for hatchlings and since they may be sick, the extra warmth can help. Try for mid to upper 70's on low side and mid 80's warm side. If another snake dies, definately have your vet perform a necropsy and send out samples to be tested for crypto. And remember, refridgerate the body, DO NOT FREEZE it. I wish you luck and hope it's just a case of "poor doers" and not an infectious condition. Please keep us informed.

My little ruby-eyed ghost regurgitated her last meal ( last week ) - this is the one that died yesterday. I will take your advice and raise the temps in the terrariums a bit, although the snakes aren't hatchlings. As for the rest of the snakes, I have the occasional regurge, but not very often. The main symptoms seem to be failure to grow ( the ruby-eyed ghost was only about 13 inches when she died, but a snake I purchased after her that was smaller when I bought it is not 18 inches long and eating fuzzies), rapid onset of dehydration and weight loss, lethargy, floppy tail, occasional 'bulges' in stomachs, and death. A couple of them have also presented a rippled mouth - where the jaw looked like it had been dislocated and never fit back together properly.

The spray I am using is called in full 'Reptile Refief DeFlea Pet Shampoo' and contains no pesticides - it is all natural chemistry. I do find the occasional tick (maybe three in the last month) and want to make sure that I avoid a tick problem - esp. since a lot of parasites / diseases can be transferred via tick. On the bottle it says the product is safe to use every three days, which I thought was a bit excessive and is the reason I do it once every two weeks. Do you really think this could be harming my snakes? I know I'm sounding paranoid here, but I love each one of my snakes and seeing them sicken and die has been very hard on me. Thankfully, none of my larger snakes have been hit by this yet (they are in a completely seperate area of the house) and none of my lizards are ill.

Thanks for you advice - I will take it. I just want this to end, and I don't want any of my snakes to suffer if this is what they have.

oh man that sucks!!!im so sorry to hear about your losses, i thought my beardie was going to die about a month ago, thank god it was a very minor problem causeing not so minor things!(a ring of skin that didnt shed off on his front leg)but i know what you mean how hard it can be being in a crappy situation like this! i didnt see anywhere in your post where you said you housed your snakes seperatley i could be wrong i just didnt remeber seeing it,if they are seperate is there any point where they are together, i would also suggest putting the temps up. man let us know how they make out i feel horrible for you. take care