How much is a genetic stripe boa worth?

I feel that alot of the stripes I see on the market,mainly tail stripes are nothing more then luck. This is just another way to inflate the value of a normal snake. I feel there is a big difference between a "striped tail" and "connected saddles". I have had many Columbians sold to me as normals that had three and sometimes four connecting tail saddles. this doesnt make them "stripe tail". I recently purchased a 5' female from Rob at RJ's Exotics that had three long connected tail saddles and he gave her to me for $125. A stripe doesnt do anything for me unless it covers at least half the snakes body. Temperature fluctuations can cause striping but seldom do you see severe striping. In all reality, the guy selling the "supposed stripes" for peanuts knows very well that if it was genetic, they would be asking much more. Just another way of squeezing a few more dollars out of unsuspecting people. this is just my opinion and maybe Im out to lunch. Either way, thanks for listening to my opinion. Have a nice day Corey Kingsbury

Originally posted by alvaro
Brian,

I agree with you, I'm not a fan of crossbreeding either. The point I was trying to make though is that I don't see how you can end-up with a genetic stripe boa (actually showing the stripe) by crossing a BCO with a BCI, considering the trait is recessive. I'm not aware of genetic striping in BCO (although I might have missed it), and if there was, even when a crossbred they should be far more expensive than a meager $200.

Regards.

Well, I don't know how much far more expensive is with stripes, really. What's the market value? Ralph Davis has poss. het albino stripes on his price list for 250-600, which would seem to indicate they're graded by the amount of striping. Kahl's site only has stripes het albino listed. Seems like most people are using stripes in albino projects, so finding one that's not at least possible het albino makes it hard to guesstimate the going rate.

As far as the argentine crosses...beats me. I haven't heard of any genetic striped argentines either.

Originally posted by Clay Davenport
So you're saying that temperature can cause striping, but it is generally accepted that it has no effect?

What I am saying is that if the female was kept at the appropriate temperatures overall, striping is most likely genetic because female boas can thermoregulate whereas eggs cannot. HOWEVER, if the female is kept in overall improper temps (too high or too low) than the striping, or other defects for that matter, can be caused. From a number of breeders I have spoken with on the web and at shows, it is generally accepted among them that the striping in boas is predominantly genetic. That doesn't rule out accidental extremes in temperature or people who intentionally manipulate the temps in an effort to create abnormalities. In short, each case has to be proven out in future breedings, but to blanketly say that the boa's stripes aren't genetic because the price is too low is wrong.

What I am saying is that if the female was kept at the appropriate temperatures overall, striping is most likely genetic because female boas can thermoregulate whereas eggs cannot.

I'm not sure what do you mean when you say that boas can thermoregulate. Both boas and pythons increase their core temperatures when pregnant or incubating their eggs, respectively. That doesn't mean they thermoregulate though. Thermoregulation implies adjusting the body temperature according to the enviornmental temperature, and as you know that doesn't happen in reptiles.

Regards.

OK...Explain to me: Boas can't thermoregulate?

I think you must be using a much different definition of the word than most of us.

Brian,

What I meant to say is that IMHO thermoregulation implies the animal can maintain a constant temperature regardless of the environment, thus converting them into an endotherm (as mammals for example). Being able to bask (as any reptile) to increase the core temperature is not (always IMO) thermoregulation, as they will overheat to the death if not allowed to cool off. The body temperature increase during gestation is also independent of the ambient temperature, thus is not a true thermoregulation but just an increase in their core temperature regardless of how warm it is outside.

Regards.

endotherm (as mammals for example)

I meant to say homeotherms!

Kindly.

Actually, homeothermy is just one of four common strategies for thermoregulation. Ectotherms and poikilotherms are still thermoregulating. Reptiles can maintain a core body temp within a very few degrees variance in the wild. They don't overheat, they have various strategies (aside from the obvious of moving to a cooler environment) for getting rid of excess heat. If an endotherm/homeotherm can't get away from exessive heat...it dies too.

I think the point with boas vs. pythons is that if someone wanted to mess with the coloration/pattern with incubaton temps, it's a lot easier with python eggs. If you take the eggs from mom, you can do whatever you want with them temp-wise, and the only thing at risk are the eggs. With a boa, you'd have to mess with the overall cage temps to get a temperature-induced abnormality, which puts the mother at risk.

In the case of wild snakes, there can still be anomalies, of course, which are just flukes, and not inheritable.

Anyway...did we ever peg the price of a plain old genetic stripe boa? Ralph Davis has striped, 66% het Albino on his site for $250 to $600, which puts them into the same ballpark as graded hypos, pretty much. I'm guessing the possible het albino doesn't add much to the price, since 66% het albinos don't go for much more than a nice normal.

They don't overheat, they have various strategies (aside from the obvious of moving to a cooler environment) for getting rid of excess heat.

Brian,

Could you elaborate on this concept? It is the first time I have heard of it and I'm intrigued. It's never to learn to learn more!

Thanks.

Well, primarily, moving around is how ectotherms gain and lose body heat. There are also other strategies: pythons can shiver, of course, to raise their body temp, some lizards can pant, some use capillary action.

It looks like I was saying that your statement that they'd overheat if not allowed to cool offwas inaccurate. It's not. My point was that the same thing would happen to us as well, and that both endotherms and ectotherms have multiple ways to gain and lose heat. The big one for herps is, of course, moving. But that's also considered thermoregulation.