Nobody else will, so I'll start it!

As many of you are doubtlessly aware, I am one of the Admins on www.reptilehaven.net formerly known as www.redtailboa.net. I have been silent on the current issues at hand, but I wanted to share my perception of the story.

We have recently had a little "falling out" amongst the admins and moderators. A good story usually begins with "It all started when..." but this situation is a bit more difficult to track down a starting point... So I will start at the Begining...

It all started when Shane Jordan (AKA Natas, site owner of reptilehaven.net) decided to open up a fourm site to talk about boas. That was somewhere around November of 2000 if my memory serves correctly. At the time, most of our few members were all also active members of kingsnake.com. Natas broke a cardinal rule of kingsnake: He posted a "come look at my new website" post. He was subsiquently banned from JeffB's little world and a bunch of kingsnake members jumped ship and came to redtailboa.net. Great times.

This story really has nothing to do with any of that though.

I was made into an admin literally before the site ever even went public. Some time not too awfully long after that, Lori Kehoe joined our little community. She hung around as a regular member for a while, she was made a moderator, and eventually an admin. She started turining her rescue service into a regular business around that time, and she had some really interesting ideas about the direction that redtailboa.net should go. I did not get the chance to voice my oppinion much then, due to the fact that she was handling just about everyting. Eventually she started doing the things that only I did... such as the surveys that I so enjoyed doing. This is when I left the site for a while.

When i was convinced by some friends to come back, it was not the same anymore... it was the same site with most of the same people, but there was a definite sense of who was in charge. My role was reduced to trying to keep everybody from killing everybody else. I did this through personal im's, in chat, and e-mail. My neverending battle cry was "Why can't we all just get along?!?" This was the status quo for... oh... about a year.

Just very recently, Lori made an administrative decision that a LOT of the other admins had a hard time with. She reorganized all moderators of all the forums... to the best of my knowledge, this was done without mentioning it to any other admins. She didn't even send a "by your leave" to the moderators that she was changing. There was at least one person who was made a mod that did not even want to be one.

This created, for lack of a better word, a general uprising amongst most of the other admins. I had said my famous "Why can't we all just get along" for the last time... it was too serious. We scheduled a chat meeting and things were not going well... I was a little disheartened by the fact that neither Natas nor Lori deigned us worthy of their presence (this was my initial conception of the events). Throughout the meeting, one member continuously made comments that led me to believe my initial suspicions were right... that Natas did not sanction the meeting, that everything we were deciding and all the progress we were making would be overturned. The worst of it was that I felt WAY out of the loop. I kept wondering how it was possible that everyone seemed to have talked to Natas except me. In the heat of that moment, I decided to resign. I spent an entire weekend without beeing an admin.

When Natas got wind of the procedings, he was furious, but not for the reasons I suspected and feared... He was not willing to accept my resignation or that of the other admins who resigned. He sent me a personal e-mail and explained his situation and that yes, in fact, he did like the ideas that we were coming up with together. It was shortly after this came about that I first heard from Lori. What I heard was simply that she had resigned.

Since then we have had another chat meeting and all the admins have been in constant contact with each other. We are seeing long lost memebers of the community come back for another look. The site is hopping agian, and I think that we have nothing but bright things in our future. There is, once again, that sense of community that kept me glued to my monitor for hours on end... just to share in each others triumphs and tradgedys.

In Short... Redtailboa.net is Back! Granted, we are back as Reptilehaven.net, but the fact remains... we are working on being a family again. A family of 3500 registered members. :-)

I Invite everyone to come back and take another look at reptilehaven.net as we are doing the good stuff agian.

-Your Sick Uncle Morti.

**Edited to correct one bad spelling error and a couple of gramar mistakes**

You know what?
I am confused.

Xzylum aka Devon Watts says this
"First of all, I talk to Lori rarely and when I do you can bet it's not about RH.:

But at the same time he also says that Lori resigned from RH weeks before the "Chat" (I presume the first chat)

It is clear from the number of admins and mods I have talked too that no one knew Lori quit.
But Devin sure knew about it.
My questions are......was he told by Lori to say that?
and if he was......then they DO talk about RH even though he says they don't


So reading from your post....my intepretation of how things were is how you also see them


1. Lori grew like a virus and ran things her way.
2. She threw her weight around when she was on the site and let everyone know who was boss.
3. She made decisions and kept admins and mods out of the loop
4. A number of us admins and mods decided we have had enough and we started resigning.
5. Xzylum aka Devin pretty much says good bye to the people who were resigning. (He, however, was intent on keeping his position)
6. Shane got wind of us resigning and null and voided our resignations.
7. Lori was told to share power and keep admins in the loop. (after all how can they be admins if they do not know what the hell is going on)
8. Lori did not want to share so she quit.
9. Her resignation is accepted.
10. Devin did not like the fact that Lori's super duper powers were stripped as can be seen by his quote "I have nothing left to say but the admins that cried power now has there way."
11. Xzylum aka Devin resigns (because he liked having Lori on top)
12. His resignation is accepted as well.
13. All the admins and mods who resigned in the beginning are now happy.
14. Member and admins and mods who left the site are now coming back happy.
15. Now you have to fix the mess that Lori left......Members accounts being deleted and such.


Did I get my timeline right?

Another thing I want to get straight.
The only complaints I ever saw of an admin harrasing a member and deleting the members account were made against Lori.
But for some reason xzylum wants to portray Lori as some saint.
What gives?
Did Lori delete any account? a simple yes or now would do.

I am trying to figure out who knew what and who is who.

Did I get my timeline right?

Your timeline seems to mesh with my timeline, yes.

Another thing I want to get straight.
The only complaints I ever saw of an admin harrasing a member and deleting the members account were made against Lori.
But for some reason xzylum wants to portray Lori as some saint.
What gives?

I have my theorys, but I would like to hear his side of that story.

Did Lori delete any account? a simple yes or now would do.

Yes.

Thanks for your reply Ritchie. Hopefully I helped clarify a bit of that.

-Your Sick Uncle Morti.

That pretty much meshes with everyones views on the whole deal.

From XzyluM

"I have nothing left to say but the admins that cried power now has there way."

she did not resign because everyone else resigned and she had to give up her privileges. Her admin privileges were given by none other than the site's owner Shane. So if any admin were more than worried about Lori having more privileges them others, then I believe they should have went to him.

I guess that Devin (XzyluM) does not realize, it was NOT about power, yet about ONE admin, abusing the system, doing as pleased with a 'to hell with the others' attitude.

As for crying for powers, the two admins that resigned, morti and I, were already and have been 'Global' full power admins for a very long time.
We simply got the same powers back, that we had given up.

From XzyluM-

Again on the complaints, most were made regarding Eddie and especially Brett. Anyone that actually kept up with the site during the long run could clearly pinpoint that out.

Show us the email complaints.
Show us the posts.
Show us the screen captures.
Show us the evidence.

ya know what?

I can show some screen captures of Loris power trips if needed.

Yes Ritchie, lori deleted accounts and locked several, some we all agreed with AFTER the fact, others that were deleted out of personal issues that were flaring up in private.

Exerpt from an email I sent to all admins-

"Even more recently, an account was locked and deleted for flames by the
member. The account locked, the employer called on the phone also even,
which led that member to leave on his own, stated by his last post under a
different account which stated that he would not return.
Severel weeks later the account was deleted, which put purdy red Xs all over
the place and which also has caused the posts by the member on the deleted
account to be disabled to the point at which noone can edit the posts, even
to correct the links for the photos on the posts.
It seems that everyone I have asked, many that is, noone saw the said flame
posts, with the exception of one person, of which I was told that the posts
in question that led to the locking of the account and the call to the
employer, were not warrented by what was said on the forums by the member
and that most of the flaming was in fact done privately, by PM and emails,
which is NOT in violation of the TOS.(BTW, this member is a moderater on the
site and I do trust this ones word. If it is not to be trusted, then why
have dishonest moderators?)
I warned against the deletion of the account, due to the problems it would
cause with the users box area, editing and such, yet several weeks AFTER the
memeber had already said the goodbyes, the account was deleted.

Why?
There was no need for it except in an attempt to remove ALL traces of the
members existance here on RTB, which does mean it was an intentional act
driven by emotions and personal vendetta feelings toward the former member.
Again, I ask why?"

Up until this point, Lori was still in communication with everyone, making mod changes on a whim, one quote from an email from Lori-

The following is the listing of administrators for the site. We have a
couple of different levels for such and they are broken down in this
listing as well [ in no specific order ] :

JuliusSqueezer
Snakepool
Bry
Captainmorgan
eddie
Fazed1
LdyDrgn
Constrictor_BO


The lead administrators for the site are [ in no specific order ] :

Morti
LORI_SnakesRule
Herpinhippie

AND we all know that the site owner is Shane aka natas

For those of you who are new to moderating on the site..Should you
require any assistance in relation to the site moderating....Please
contact the admin that is listed along with yourself on the forum[s] such
relates to. if you are not able to get in touch with that person / admin,
then please contact one of the lead admins or another admin of the site
for help.
For any issues relative to the photo albums please contact any of
the following admins :

LORI_SnakesRule
Morti
Fazed1
LdyDrgn


All of the above persons may be contacted either through e-mail or
pm on the site. The e-mail addy for each person can be found under the
members listing on the site. Please make sure that your e-mail contact
information is up to date at all times on the members listing also. TYIA.

THANK YOU to ALL who have worked to make this site what it is
today..AND to those that have recently joined on to help advance the site
to what it shall be tomorrow ;}


LORI KEHOE ; Reptilehaven/RTB.net Admin

This CLEARLY does not sound like someone that had given up WEEKS prior to the first meeting we attempted.

I do feel that a resignation was not sent in by Lori until AFTER people started asking serious hardball questions about the acts and behaviors that could be seen all over RH.

I also see that XzyluMs biggest complaint, although he will never admit it, is a loss of 'promised powers' to be given to him for recoding a site, (he does not know coding...) to which I believe were promised to him by Lori.

Devin liked to brag about things, unfortunately, to people that were smart enough to clue others in on issues that would have been detrimental to the site, RH.

Eddie101> hey
<***> What
<***> lol
Eddie101> I need to know what devin told you prior to the meeting, such as him getting admins etc..
<***> Never thought I'd miss YOU eddie
Eddie101> so?
Eddie101>
<***> He just told me that when the new site was up, he would be doing all the coding, cause Shane was gonna make him an admin
<***> Then, he said, you can have my mod status
<***> I told him no thanks
<***> If I ever get it, it won't be sneaky and underhanded
Eddie101>
<***> It will be because I asked for it
<***> I don't do that sneaky, underhanded crap
<***> Why? He trying to deny it now?
<***> too bad I con't know how to do screen capture
Eddie101> a new thread on the BOI has begun.
Eddie101> ok to use the log?
Eddie101> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...threadid=16656
<***> Yeah, I don't care
<***> Devin prolly won't ever talk to me again anyway
Eddie101> me either
Eddie101> I aint gotta use names, just a bone tossed out
Eddie101> when did he tell you that, a week before the meeting? earlier or just prior?
<***> He started telling me about coding on the new site like 2 months ago, but the admin thing was brought up about 2-3 days before the actual chat meeting where everyone resigned
<***> I think it was 2 days before, cause I told Barry, and it seems like the meeting was the next day
<***> after you post, tell me so I can refresh
<***> I want to see it
Eddie101> ok

Apparently, XzyluM was power hungry, was promised 'super dooper' powers and trying to make good allies by 'spreading the power' as he saw fit. (absolute power corrupts absolutely, sometimes just the thought of power is enough to corrupt...)

He disrupted our first meeting and when asked about the promised powers, he got very defensive, child like and eventually left the chat before he got kicked off.

And to reiterate what Donnie has already said, traffic is up on RH, older members are walking in and posting, instead of merely lurking, new members are signing up quickly and everything is on an upswing, except that since around 4pm, RH has been down, possibly to server issues........

(edited by Reticed so the chat log could be more easily followed.)

Just in case anyone cares, here is my 2 cents + tax.

Things weren't going so great. As cliche' as this may sound "If we give you inch, you think you are a ruler" seems to apply. Lori was not happy being an admin among other admins and so went to Shane with this whole "Lead Admin" Idea and since Shane is pretty passive and I'm sure it was presented in a way where it was more..."I'll take care of this and that and make sure this gets done etc....not "I want to be boss of the world" I'm sure Lori and Shane's definitions of "Lead Admin" varried greatly or went through without any forethought. The title in itsself is just that...a title. Many of us had the same permissions and worked just as hard to keep the site going. Lori worked the hardest on making an authoritive image...that is pretty much it. Since noone else felt a need to dictate...she got her way for awhile. But enough is enough is enough! That email where she decided that She was a lead admin snuggled between 2 other admins that she felt would not pose a threat to her queenbee status and she felt would not give her any flack and would just let her do as she pleased....sent me off the deepend. It just served absolutely no purpose other than to define to which she could hide behind and overrule the other admins rendering us useless. Again...we all have the same permissions and most if not all of us are just as committed and capible as anyone else...I truely can not see ANY reason for any of this other than "POWER TRIPPING" Something that we just don't need anywhere. I talked in depth to Shane mostly letting him know that many of us felt our toes were being stood on and that unless we could incorporate a "Knights of the Round Table" type setting that I had no interest in being any part of the site any more at any level...it seemed I was at least getting somewhere with Shane...Tried to talk to Lori....got absolutley Nowhere....talked some more to Shane....got a little more somewhere....talked to Morti...Morti organized a meeting that went well even with Xzylum cutting in and trying to discount all of our advancements. Unfortunately or actually "fortunately" as it turns out..people took him serious, gave up and resigned. I fully understood the resignitions as I was planning to do the same but thought I would hear from Shane first. I wasn't sure where Xzylum was getting his info from nor was I going to take his word for it. So, I emailed Shane and he was pretty upset and said he fully sanctioned the meeting, thought it was a great idea and was happy that we were all getting involved into making the site a happier place. He also said that he hadn't talked to Xzylum about ANY of this so it could only have come from Lori...or his own head...who knows? who cares....in the end...we got our way which is an obvious victory for every single member of the site who is there for the animals and each other and not to play webnazi. Let me say this again....We Won. We got Our Way....Yay us....Noone asked Lori or Xzylum to leave the site. They were not left out of the loop in reformating the way things would from now on be run....even though in the past, that same courtousy was not granted to any of us...Again...NOONE even suggested that either of them not play a part in their prospective role. It just apparently wasn't good enough and so they quit. Lori's resignation, especially only served to PROVE that we were right in our judgment of what was really important to her. We got together and demanded equality...EQUALITY. Only a Nazi would take this as a stab to the heart and quit.

Now...all is out and all has been said and little has been responded to other than...I quit! Some BS was stated by Lori supposedly that she had resigned weeks earlier anyway...huh? then why would she take the time to change the mod list around and throne herself as a "lead admin" and get up in arms that I made ONE tiny change to the mod list that was very poorly thought out on her part. She let me know real fast that any changes were to be approved by HER....doesn't sound too resigned to me....anyway...whatever...if it makes her feel better to say what ever she wants to about as to why...let her. It changes nothing and harms noone except her own reputation and integrity.

Oh...I was accused of stripping her admin rights and changing her password. WRONG....I did no such thing. My password got glitched too about that same time...in fact it was during the meeting we had when all of a sudden my account was unaccessable and I had to have a new password set via email. I don't know if any of this is related or if it was done by person or computer glitch....but it got fixed and no harm was done so I don't care. Lori shouldnt care either since she supposedly had resigned anyway 3 weeks prior LOL....whatever...I'm done.

Looks like I hit the nail on the head quite literally.

For XzyluM, it is all about power.(notice he is now a global mod, just like Lori!!!)(pay attention to the sign up date )

For Lori it is all about buying friends.



By the way... I still have not recieved the funds from Lori Kehoe as of this moment.

And I have sent her another email, which has not been replied to as well, so it looks like we are back to square 2 with the issue.

I was wondering why he quit Reptile haven.
I guess I was right when I thought it was because his favorite person quit.
He says she quit a long long time ago.
So why did he not quit then if it is true.

Without Lori, his chances of making Admin fast and furious would not come into fruition.
So he followed her resignation example and resigned.
then followed her to the other site where she has enough influence to get him promoted.
To think, he joined on the first of April and got the tittle on the 27th of april.
WOW he got the power he wanted. And FAST

faster than me......I am still waiting to help out in the other forums. But now that they are both together at last....i will keep the two forums I have...I no longer want to expand.

I was thinking if Lori and Xzylum are gonna be in charge...then i would go ahead and resign my position on RTB.com.

but I decided against it for a couple reasons.

1. i consider clay to be a friend
2. Clay has control of his site. I know he is boss.

But the second he is no longer boss of his own site.
The second it starts feeling like Lori and devin's site instead of Clay's,
that is when i turn in my resignation.

As aforementioned elsewhere in a different website.
I joined CLAY'S website...........NOT lori's or Devin's

Oh what a tangled web we weave......

Gee... I wonder why Xzylum hasn't been by to say something.

forward this thread to him.

he was quite outspoken not to long ago.
I guess he did not think that more than one moderator and admin would come along and tell their side of things.

I wonder what the other mods and admins have to say.
I thought there were five who were going to quit?
I thought there were members who left because of Lori?
I certainlyh wouyld like to see their version of the story

Check out the link
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...0&pagenumber=1

in it you will find proof of what Lori has been accused of.

In it she admits sending someone to TC place of employment and "passing a message" to him.................
passing a message = harrassing him

Lori has also been accused of deleting peoples accounts on Reptilehaven.net out of spite.

Ask yourself. As an admin....why dont you ban the person instead of spitefully deleting their account.

Well I did some research on Redtailboas.com.
Guess what.?
TC who was an admin over there.
His account has vanished.
in fact if you dredge up one of his old posts.....it will say guest.

I could bet my left nut that the owner did not delete TC's account.
I could bet my left nut Lori did it.