Obama and the attempt to destroy the Second Amendment

People who shoot animals deserve to get charged with it. If they hit a cat with a machete, would you advocate outlawing machetes? It's not the GUN.. it's the PERSON.

Originally Posted by Dreqqus

My take on the issue:

http://thatvideosite.com/video/1804

But in all seriousness, while the 2nd amendment is an individual right, I believe the types of guns that can be owned by the individual are what should be limited. If you want a handgun to protect your family, or a rifle to hunt that's fine, but you don't need an automatic weapon in order to do so. I also believe gun ownership should be subject to some kind of intelligence test. Idiots should not be allowed to just randomly shoot their guns in their backyard. A moron shot my cat, because he was just shooting, for no reason, other than to feel like a big man apparently.

So when did the second amendment have anything or absolute reference to common crime and hunting? You punish the individual such as the moron who shoot your cat, not the rights of the citizens.

The problem with most gun laws is that they incorporate a presumption of probable guilt on the owners of such firearms. The laws presume that someone having the capability of committing a crime with such devices WILL commit the crime unless the devices are kept from them.

As an aside, many people will use the comparison relating to the first amendment that people can't yell FIRE! in a crowded movie theater, even though the first amendment reserves the right to free speech to "the people". Well that's fine and dandy, and certainly someone SHOULD be prosecuted if they did such a thing. But the difference is that the gun laws are the equivalent of everyone coming into the movie theater having their mouths duct taped shut so they CAN'T yell FIRE! in there. Or in some of the more extreme gun laws, the comparable procedure would be that everyone have their larynx removed completely so there is absolutely NO chance at all that someone might even accidentally yell FIRE! in that theater....

I don't believe that outlawing guns will help any crime rate at all. If nothing else, look at the horrifying genocide in Rwanda.. where most of the killings were done with machetes and beatings! Outlawing guns will not help crime. Solving the issues that cause people to be successful criminals will help lower crime rates. More severe punishments, and better early education.

I say the old barbaric ways were pretty effective. I mean, if you murder someone, do a drive by shooting, armed robberies, rape, basically any violent crime, and you get caught and found guilty, you die. First time, every time. Then you don't have to mess with the honest gun bearing folk anymore.

You send them to jail, and a mere one out of a thousand actually comes out with a straight attitude. Most go and do something stupid again, this time "educated" by smarter criminals then themselves, and we pay to house and feed them all over again.

Price of a .308 round, about 50¢ or so. (my personal favorite due to the message it sends to other scum)

Price of electrocution, what a couple bucks in electricity?

Who knows what gas chambers and lethal injection cost. But I'd wager it's fairly cheap too.

How much do you think it costs to feed and house them for 5 or 20 years?

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus

How much do you think it costs to feed and house them for 5 or 20 years?

And how many people were/have been falsely imprisoned only to be exonerated 10-20 years after the fact? Kill them right off the bat and then go ooops. my bad 10 years down the road after the fact?

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus

I say the old barbaric ways were pretty effective. I mean, if you murder someone, do a drive by shooting, armed robberies, rape, basically any violent crime, and you get caught and found guilty, you die. First time, every time. Then you don't have to mess with the honest gun bearing folk anymore.

You send them to jail, and a mere one out of a thousand actually comes out with a straight attitude. Most go and do something stupid again, this time "educated" by smarter criminals then themselves, and we pay to house and feed them all over again.

Price of a .308 round, about 50¢ or so. (my personal favorite due to the message it sends to other scum)

Price of electrocution, what a couple bucks in electricity?

Who knows what gas chambers and lethal injection cost. But I'd wager it's fairly cheap too.

How much do you think it costs to feed and house them for 5 or 20 years?

You talk like you are from Texas or something....

This is one of the few times that I will have to disagree with you. Only because I do not believe in killing for any reason other than defending ones life or the life of another. Any other reason and it is just murder. And I wont even begin to get into the amount of innocent people killed or freed from death row that were wrongly convicted.

Now with that being said, I am a big proponent of public stonings. I really wish they would consider bringing them back into play again.

However, we have no one to blame but ourselves for the excessively high repeat offenders in this country. Our prison system itself is the biggest reason for repeat offenders. It breeds repeat offenders. We have been running our prisons basically the same way for over a 100 years. We need to try something new because this way aint working.

Which brings me back to public stonings....

You have a valid point. I hadn't considered that angle. But how many repeat offenders do we have to keep housing and paying for due to liberal law makers?

I just think we are way to lenient with proved criminals.

Originally Posted by shrap

You talk like you are from Texas or something....

This is one of the few times that I will have to disagree with you. Only because I do not believe in killing for any reason other than defending ones life or the life of another. Any other reason and it is just murder. And I wont even begin to get into the amount of innocent people killed or freed from death row that were wrongly convicted.

Now with that being said, I am a big proponent of public stonings. I really wish they would consider bringing them back into play again.

However, we have no one to blame but ourselves for the excessively high repeat offenders in this country. Our prison system itself is the biggest reason for repeat offenders. It breeds repeat offenders. We have been running our prisons basically the same way for over a 100 years. We need to try something new because this way aint working.

Which brings me back to public stonings....

Hmm... Stonings were generally TO DEATH, for the person being stoned weren't they?

Stoning, or lapidation, refers to a form of capital punishment whereby an organized group throws stones at the convicted individual until the person dies.

Certainly that would qualify for "killing", now wouldn't it?

Originally Posted by WebSlave

The problem with most gun laws is that they incorporate a presumption of probable guilt on the owners of such firearms. The laws presume that someone having the capability of committing a crime with such devices WILL commit the crime unless the devices are kept from them.

As an aside, many people will use the comparison relating to the first amendment that people can't yell FIRE! in a crowded movie theater, even though the first amendment reserves the right to free speech to "the people". Well that's fine and dandy, and certainly someone SHOULD be prosecuted if they did such a thing. But the difference is that the gun laws are the equivalent of everyone coming into the movie theater having their mouths duct taped shut so they CAN'T yell FIRE! in there. Or in some of the more extreme gun laws, the comparable procedure would be that everyone have their larynx removed completely so there is absolutely NO chance at all that someone might even accidentally yell FIRE! in that theater....

The other, very obvious, side to that is that the existing gun control laws are most effective at hindering your average Joe, law abiding citizen. The criminals don't really care if a gun is illegal, and don't follow the due processes.