What is the world coming to?

Originally Posted by April Yohn

There are other measures that can be taken to get deer to stop eatting your flowers and veggies, imo it does not justify killing the deer. Why couldn't this lady just have called animal control to remove and relocate it? insane.

So she should have let it continue destroying her property while she went inside, made a phone call, explained the situation and then waited for animal control to get around to her; wherever she ended up on the list?

Originally Posted by Seamus Haley

So she should have let it continue destroying her property while she went inside, made a phone call, explained the situation and then waited for animal control to get around to her; wherever she ended up on the list?

It was an option rather than beating it.

Where in the story did it ever say this fawn was 'destroying her property'? When a doe goes off to forage, their fawns sit and wait, their insticts are to just sit very still. Deer can also be protective and there was no mention of the deer being around. The fawn was 'found in her flower garden', yes it could have been eating her flowers and I won't argue a person's right to defend their property, I'm not even uber upset that she killed it, just in the way that she went about it that bothers me. I guess none of us was there or really know how the whole situation happened.

Maybe I'm just too much of a softie.

Then headline would have been much different if she had beaten, say, a nasty old snake with her shovel.

From THIS:
Ohio woman, 75, accused of beating fawn to death

to THIS:
Ohio woman, 75, Hero, saves family from snake

Grandma got run over by a rein deer.

Grandma strikes back (with a shovel).

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Originally Posted by April Yohn

Maybe I'm just too much of a softie.

It's all the cute fuzzy bambi propaganda. Nobody wants to talk about how destructive overpopulated deer can be, not just to gardens but to the woods as well.
They strip your entire garden bare, eat your shrubs and strip the bark from young trees, killing them.

Here's three brief articles that are not anti deer extremists. Just some light reading for the lucky people who aren't in over populated areas.

Article 1 fourth & fifth paragraph for monetary some damages

Article 2 Birth Control alternative fails, it's in Jersey though

Article 3 Brief Blurb with other wildlife being impacted by deer

There's more and worse but I honestly don't want to research enough to write a paper on them

MikeAnthony-
Sad & angering but very true

Originally Posted by Twizted Paths

It's all the cute fuzzy bambi propaganda. Nobody wants to talk about how destructive overpopulated deer can be, not just to gardens but to the woods as well.
They strip your entire garden bare, eat your shrubs and strip the bark from young trees, killing them.

Let's not forget vehicle damage. I plowed through several in the big truck, not fun. Had one buck actually run into the side of the truck, smashed himself into the fuel tank there because the truck didn't have the plastic fairings to cover them. I thought I'd blown a steer tire, it was that loud. I pulled over as quick as I could, and nearly broke my neck slipping on all the deer bits slathered on my running boards. He'd basically grated himself and left big chunks hanging in the fuel tank strappings. left me an antler stuck in the fuel tank, too. Easily the most disgusting, disturbing, and frightening experience I've had out on the road. Well, except maybe what that guy was doing while he was behind the wheel in a small truck beside me in Portland rush hour. Truckers do look, make sure you aren't doing anything you don't want someone else to see! LOL Cost my insurance at least a couple grand to replace the demolished punctured fuel tank and repair the other damages. Yikes.

I'm not upset that she killed it, but perhaps they way she did it may have been a bit brutal. I just hope she tossed that tender little sucker in the freezer!

Oh yes, I understand all that, my grandad had deer running all over his property in Missouri (which he hunted and yes, we ate). We even have deer here in the middle of downtown in the Bay Area running up and down the little creeks. They come up out of the creek and eat the little baby trees and shrubs that grow in the field right in front of where I live (and the racoons come out and throw the dumpster garbage everywhere).

I just don't think their destructive behaviour and overpopulation problems give any justificiation to this particular story, just shows that yes, their populations desperately need to be culled (and so do humans, but I digress lol).

[embed]Cleveland Metroparks Euclid Creek Reservation, a wooded park where deer, foxes and other wildlife roam.[quote]

This lady lives right by a wildlife reserve, and she treats a fawn like a scary, destructive beast?? While I agree that deer populations in some areas are becoming problematic, I also think that anyone living next to a wildlife reserve should expect to encounter wildlife! We don't know that there is a deer problem in this area, but I do know that reserves are created because it is not just the absence of predators that is the problem. It is also destruction of habitat so that humans can have their pretty little petunia gardens.

Yes, if we MUST keep clear cutting land to build strip malls and apartment complexes to house the NUISANCE animal known as homo sapient and choosing the interest of cattle ranchers over the threatened wolf population, then we better cull the deer population. But come on! Do we have to condone brutality? Predators are less brutal than that woman as toward that fawn.

Yes, there is a bambi mentality about deer and yes they can be very destructive to human interest, but there is also a prevailing anthropocentric attitude in most modern human cultures that makes us think that a flower garden is more important than compassion for non human animal species. What would be wrong with losing another flower or two while she made a phone call, IF that fawn was in fact eating the flowers which I highly doubt, to exercise a little compassion? I suspect that every one of you would have been outraged if she had beaten a snake to death.

I took a quick look at some of the many news boards that is running this story.

It seems one of her neighbors is her city council representative and he reported that when she came across the deer in her flower bed it made a noise and she struck the deer with a shovel that she had with her.

Now, was it overkill in my opinion and maybe some of the posters here? Well, I will just answer that I probably wouldn't have struck the fawn or killed it. She was an old lady in her garden, may or may not have been startled, frightened herself I'm not very clear on that part but she struck it once according to the reports.

What I do know is she was charged with

"first-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. "

Then after all the publicity was ramped up animal rights groups flooded the City with calls, so they added

Frey said today that he plans to add a state cruelty charge, which is a second-degree misdemeanor, to give the judge more sentencing options, considering Richardson's age. The state charge is punishable by a maximum 90 days in jail and $750 fine.Frey said he has received dozens of e-mails from across the country urging him to prosecute the case to its fullest.

I think tacking on additional charges from the state and the city is overkill.

What Seamus stated about if it were another animal is right on target. Any raccoon found on my property is killed on sight. Don't like it, tough. It's my property.

I started reading a lot of the comments posted elsewhere about this.
They are all like this.

I'm sorry, but what demented soul at age 75 would want to kill a helpless creature? She must know deer are not wolves and therefore not in fear for her safety. Is this how heartless and bitter old women can get? For shame.

Sorry, but look lady, they're flowers. You don't kill a fawn over that. Just buy some more flowers. Clearly, this woman isn't thinking well. This may be the first sign of a problem that she needs attention for. Hopefully, the neighbors will help her find something from the local garden center that can help her keep the deer away without going to these measures. Now that they know she needs help. Let her spend some time at a animal / wildlife shelter, and fine her.

I strongly hope that she gets the maximum. The neighbors were interviewed last night and from what I understand, this could happen again. Children in her neighborhood need to be safe and if she does this to a helpless animal, she could do it to the children also. I applaud those who have stepped up and decided that she should receive the strongest penalty.

Let's hang Granny...

"She could do this to children." When you have people writing in from around the world to pressure a local government to throw the book at a old lady that killed a wild animal on her own property, I think you need to step back and look at the situation a little better. Nuisance animals very from location to location. It's not like she walked over and killed the neighbor's dog or attacking animals at random on streets.

While I may not like the fact that she killed the deer, this global citizen bull
where most of you feel that you have some dang authority to tar and feather people for what they do on their own property or the way they live is getting to the boiling point with me. Who the heck are you? A coon on my property means dead animals are destroyed crops.

Look, If I was her neighbor I would have talked to her about it. Gave her my point of view that I thought she need not take the action that she did.

What I wouldn't do is get on the phone and report my neighbor. There is to much of that going on in every neighborhood. The law isn't applied evenly across the country to all people, even based on similar circumstances in the same area. It's becoming to much of a fascist state where people call on you for everything.

There are those that think killing any animal for any reason is cruelty. There are those that think because we keep animals we are guilty of cruelty. What are you going to do when the majority disagrees with us?

I tell you what, if I catch a coon in my hen house and all I have is a shovel or a pitchfork in hand at the time, I'm using it. You don't like it, you know where you can go.

If it were a coon or a snake no doubt it wouldn't have received the same attention.

Same goes for any wild animal. I may admire wolfs. I may think they shouldn't be hunted to extinction but who the heck am I to tell a rancher who has his whole life tied to the cattle and livestock on his property? That because I believe a certain way he may not defend his property.

"There just flowers"

So what! I'm glad you can decide for this person that said property is "just something". It could be just squash, lettuce you name it. It's not yours so it doesn't matter to you but obviously it has value to the owner. Doesn't matter because obviously the rest of society has determined that no-matter what property is yours you don't have rights to defend such property from anything anymore.
Build a fence? Yeah, it's almost easier to move a mountain to build a fence in my area on YOUR OWN PROPERTY. First you have to pay for a permit, then depending on location and size there is several environmental impact groups that you may have to go before and of course you have to pay them fees as well. All said and done you might be out a couple of grand before you are denied such a permit or asked to revise the height or something else so you can reapply.
Even if it was easy to build a fence who the heck are you to tell someone else that they need to build a fence on their property?
It is not required anywhere in the Constitution that I can see that you must surround your own property so you can enjoy the right to protect your property from outside factors.
All nice ideas but you don't look at the reality that must people have to deal with.

I know this was a fawn but I would like to make a comment on what people have stated about deer on some of other forums regarding deer in general not being dangerous that they aren't like coyotes or wolfs. I have seen this mentioned several times in relation to this story.

Here is a statement of fact that those of you talking out your butt about how deer are harmless.

More people are killed or hurt by deer than any other wild animal (bear, coyotes, etc. ) each year in are national parks and protected areas. People take deer for granted. They walk up and try to feed them in several parks. They are often kicked. I remember some idiot put their child on the back of a small buck while they were feeding it to try and get a photo in Yosemite some years ago. Deer are not harmless animals. A young fawn yes, but deer in general is false.

It is one thing to disagree with her actions in this case, it is another to target this lady for her actions.

[quote=rosebud945;735221][embed]Cleveland Metroparks Euclid Creek Reservation, a wooded park where deer, foxes and other wildlife roam.

This lady lives right by a wildlife reserve, and she treats a fawn like a scary, destructive beast?? While I agree that deer populations in some areas are becoming problematic, I also think that anyone living next to a wildlife reserve should expect to encounter wildlife! We don't know that there is a deer problem in this area, but I do know that reserves are created because it is not just the absence of predators that is the problem. It is also destruction of habitat so that humans can have their pretty little petunia gardens.

Yes, I do know that there is a major overpopulation problem in this area. I can walk down one house & a gas station cross the street step off the sidewalk and be at the top of a Metroparks hill.
And I also posted links referring to the over population problem.

The reserves were Not created to protect deer. They were created to protect the wilderness (and I use that term so very loosely) in the middle of an urban area.
Kindly refer to Article 3. Deer are destroying the reserve.
Damn skippy I want my garden, we are a very broke region. A lot of people here depend on their vegetable gardens for food and can not afford fresh produce.
I wish I could garden here, it would save me an easy third of my grocery bill.
Even if it's just a flower garden people work hard for that little bit of joy. I have plants that came from my great granma, they are not replaceable. Deer are.

Originally Posted by rosebud945

Yes, if we MUST keep clear cutting land to build strip malls and apartment complexes to house the NUISANCE animal known as homo sapient and choosing the interest of cattle ranchers over the threatened wolf population, then we better cull the deer population. But come on! Do we have to condone brutality? Predators are less brutal than that woman as toward that fawn.

Yes, humans will destroy the earth.Is your carbon footprint zero? Do you give more then you take?

We don't ranch cattle this far north, it's all city up here.

Have you seen coyotes kill, it ain't clean and pretty at all.

Originally Posted by rosebud945

Yes, there is a bambi mentality about deer and yes they can be very destructive to human interest, but there is also a prevailing anthropocentric attitude in most modern human cultures that makes us think that a flower garden is more important than compassion for non human animal species. What would be wrong with losing another flower or two while she made a phone call, IF that fawn was in fact eating the flowers which I highly doubt, to exercise a little compassion? I suspect that every one of you would have been outraged if she had beaten a snake to death.

Snakes are beneficial, deer are not. Please read the links, in this region deer are currently a menace to both humans and the environment.

And don't cha'all worry, I catch a deer in my yard I will harvest it efficiently and it's meat will not be wasted