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General Business Discussions This is a general purpose forum open to business related topics concerning Reptiles and Amphibians that are neither appropriate for the Board of Inquiry, nor sales, purchase, or trade solicitations.

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Old 10-14-2007, 01:03 PM   #1
The BoidSmith
What if your item is overpriced?

It sometimes surprises me to see the same ad for the same snake posted over and over again without changing the selling strategy one iota. It reminds me of the phrase attributed to Einstein..."Repeating the same behavior over and over again and expecting different results"...There's a point in time where the seller has to realize that he/she is off-price. Unless of course they are waiting for a next generation of herpers to grow up and show some interest in that animal in particular, it would be important to check the market and see why there's apparently no interest for that animal. Of course anyone can do as they wish with their animals but I would assume that if they are taking the time to post an ad it's because they eventually want to be able to close a deal.

Regards,
 
Old 10-14-2007, 01:19 PM   #2
Clay Davenport
I'm not sure what particular ad provided the incentive for your post, for me I disagree with you.
I don't understand the people who post an ad and when it doesn't sell within a week start lowering the price until it does sell.
I rarely lower my prices from what I originally post. Granted I start the ad with a reasonable price, sometimes on the high end of average, but I usually hold that price.
I have had animals for sale for 3+ months while refusing to lower the price and they eventually sold for what I was asking.
For instance I posted a snake last season for $1200. That was the upper end of the going price range for that snake. Other's like it were being advertised for as little as $900. I thought about it beforehand as I always do and decided that was the price it would take for me to sell her. The ad ran for 3-4 months with minimal interest and in the end sold for what I was asking.

I tend to think many breeders are far too quick to lower their prices when an animal doesn't sell immediately and that is a contributing factor to the degradation of the market we have seen over the last few seasons.
It all boils down to quality. If you are selling quality then there is a buyer out there that will realize that and pay the price required to begin the project with that quality.

As I have said in the past, cheap isn't quality and quality isn't cheap.
If I produce a snake that is of average quality, then it will be priced as such, but when I produce something of high quality it will be priced accordingly and the price will not drop even if it means I raise the animal and it becomes a breeder for me. If it is of that quality then I don't mind at all if it remains in my collection.
 
Old 10-14-2007, 01:40 PM   #3
The BoidSmith
Clay,

The keyword in my post is "overpriced". If you feel that's what your animal is worth that's great. My point is for example when someone offers an animal way over the market price and it stays in the market for 6-12 months. From a buyer's perspective this is having exactly the opposite effect you are willing to accomplish (stabilize the market). The potential buyer perceives that the animal in question is not worth what it's been asked for. In the meantime by not moving the item you are creating a stagnant market, whereas if you were priced right (at a normal market price) the market will continue to flow. Bear with me I'm not talking about "cheap" here, but priced right. What is priced right? A price that allows for market flowability.

Regards.
 
Old 10-14-2007, 03:55 PM   #4
hhmoore
I'm tending to lean more with Clay on this one (though I do understand your point, Dan). Your statement There's a point in time where the seller has to realize that he/she is off-price. is not necessarily correct. The consumer has come to realize that in many cases, unless it is an unusually high demand item, all they have to do is wait. So many people are willing to undercut repeatedly in order to move their stock quickly, that if you have an interest in something all you have to do is wait for the deal you want. The number of people that are (over)producing animals for the sole purpose of making money, or just to see if they can, increases annually. In either case, the seller wants the animals gone. This has led to faster than normal market reductions for animals that should be fairly stable. I have said many times that I would wholesale what I produce before playing the drop til it sells game...of course, the goal should be not to produce more than one can expect to sell, but how many people consider that aspect? It seems to be more a matter of noticing that this snake is selling for $100, if I can produce 100 of them $$ka-CHING$$. Then comes the realization that nobody knows them, and 30 other people are selling them for the same price today, so they start lowering the prices until people jump. Once people start undercutting, there are enough people willing to follow that "normal market" is reduced.
Overpriced is in the eye of the beholders. What one consumer sees as overpriced, another sees as a deal.

(Look at it this way, Dan - I know of a seller that has had the same pair of snakes available, for the same price, for at least 3 years. He no longer advertises them constantly, but he throws the ad up semi-regularly and has them listed on his website. I only remember seeing a couple of others offered in that time. Is he overpriced? Or just willing to hold onto his animals until he gets the price he deemed fair?)
 
Old 10-14-2007, 04:13 PM   #5
The BoidSmith
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhmoore
(Look at it this way, Dan - I know of a seller that has had the same pair of snakes available, for the same price, for at least 3 years. He no longer advertises them constantly, but he throws the ad up semi-regularly and has them listed on his website. I only remember seeing a couple of others offered in that time. Is he overpriced? Or just willing to hold onto his animals until he gets the price he deemed fair?)
The way I see it (and don't pretend to be right about it) he is devaluating his animals each time he posts them and they don't sell. The public gets used to see that item in their computer screen and loose interest. The market is to infinite, there's a finite number of active purchasers on-line.

Regards,
 
Old 10-14-2007, 04:35 PM   #6
hhmoore
I agree that when he was posting the advertisement weekly, it was really obvious that they weren't selling...now though, it pops up once every 3-4 months. What is your opinion on listing them on his website? Should he periodically add them to his available list vs leaving them there?
One thing that I find interesting is that I was regularly attending a show that this person vends, and always went past his table...and I honestly don't think he brings them. I can't help but wonder if it is because he has resigned himself to the fact that they aren't going to sell, or if he doesn't really want to sell them. I rather suspect the former, since they are listed as proven breeders, but I have not once (since I noticed that he had them) seen him offer offspring.
At this point, though, I would think that a price reduction is in order, even if only in the interest of cutting his losses. Maybe he is trying to recoup his costs, but if they aren't selling, and he is continuing to feed them, they just cost him more each year.
btw - since it is not an animal that is regularly seen advertised/available (though I do know of importers that get them in yearly), it is hard to judge market value. Knowing the typical pricing of what I consider a more attractive similar snake (formerly a subspecies of the one in question), I do tend to think he is priced high...but since the only offerings for this particular species seem to be very limited quantities of fresh imports, I would think that long term captive, proven breeders should command a higher price
 
Old 10-15-2007, 12:05 AM   #7
Clay Davenport
Quote:
Originally Posted by The BoidSmith
Clay,

The keyword in my post is "overpriced". If you feel that's what your animal is worth that's great. My point is for example when someone offers an animal way over the market price and it stays in the market for 6-12 months. From a buyer's perspective this is having exactly the opposite effect you are willing to accomplish (stabilize the market). The potential buyer perceives that the animal in question is not worth what it's been asked for. In the meantime by not moving the item you are creating a stagnant market, whereas if you were priced right (at a normal market price) the market will continue to flow. Bear with me I'm not talking about "cheap" here, but priced right. What is priced right? A price that allows for market flowability.

Regards.
Maybe I'm not fully understanding your point. Overpriced by who's definition? What a buyer considers overpriced and what the seller considers overpriced might be very different.
A breeder keeping the animal for sale for 12 months with no price drop is not going to stagnate the market beyond that one animal. The market will flow regardless, that one animal just won't be flowing with it.

That brings me to my other thought on the matter. What difference does it make? Why should you or I care if another breeder is content to sit on one of his animals indefinitely?
Whether someone else makes a sale or loses one due to high pricing is of no consequence to anyone but him. He's the one that has to feed it from now on if it doesn't sell.
Regardless of what the market says a snake of mine is worth, I decide what it is worth to me personally, and the only way that someone will get that snake will be to offer me an amount greater than or equal to that figure. Sometimes I have a snake that I am willing to sell but am also completely content to keep as well. I might price that snake high, even over market value depending on what amount it would take for me to be just as happy selling it as I would be keeping it. I suspect that the same thing is in play other times you see an over priced animal, they are willing to sell it, but just as willing to keep it.

I can't help but get the feeling that there's some underlying reasons for this thread we are not aware of. Perhaps this just occurred to you for some reason and you wanted to discuss it, but your words somehow suggest to me that you have something specific in mind when you type while the rest of us are speaking in generalities.
 
Old 10-15-2007, 01:57 AM   #8
The BoidSmith
Clay,

No, there's nothing behind it (I guess we've all been watching too much BOI ). My thoughts are that each of us shape the market. The large players as well as the small ones. Our actions reflect on what will happen in the not so distant future. Even one individual can originate the tipping point for a market trend (we have seen recent examples). We are not isolated entities; what we all do, good or bad, has an impact in how the market is shaped. Anyways good discussion and I respect your point of view.

Best regards.
 
Old 10-15-2007, 03:35 AM   #9
Clay Davenport
Quote:
Originally Posted by The BoidSmith
Clay,

No, there's nothing behind it (I guess we've all been watching too much BOI ). My thoughts are that each of us shape the market. The large players as well as the small ones. Our actions reflect on what will happen in the not so distant future. Even one individual can originate the tipping point for a market trend (we have seen recent examples). We are not isolated entities; what we all do, good or bad, has an impact in how the market is shaped. Anyways good discussion and I respect your point of view.

Best regards.
It didn't make any difference to me or the discussion if there was something that precipitated the thread, I was just thinking that if you were formulating your opinion with a specific circumstance in mind then that might be a source of my inability to get on the same wave length so to speak.

I agree though, we are not isolated in the market. The actions of all, collectively and individually, shape the market as a whole. When it comes to tipping the market though, I can agree that one person can instigate a fall in market prices with an ill-conceived action, but I don't see any real effect on the market as a whole from a seller pricing his animals significantly higher than average and refusing to lower them. That action to me only affects that seller in the end by basically removing him from the market for the most part.

I can easily see how a breeder will produce the occasional animal that he personally considers well above average, and prices it accordingly. I've seen breeders offer some of the very best examples of the species at two and three times normal market value. I have even paid 3 times what a snake is normally worth because I too saw the rare quality it displayed.
When someone does that on a routine basis though, pricing their stock way above the average without any real justification, in the end I only see it as essentially removing themselves from the market by alienating the potential customer base without having any noticeable effect on the market itself.
At most they will merely become a topic of conversation among other breeders about how foolish it is if they actually think they'll command those prices amid the other breeders who price according to the market.

I admit though, I've seen dozens and dozens of discussions about people cutting the market, and causing both brief and lasting crashes in prices, but this is the first topic I remember seeing about breeders maintaining a price scale that is considered too high, and until now I hadn't really given that idea much thought.
 

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