'Loopholes' in Local Exotics Laws

For those unfamiliar with the laws in Tennessee, owning a turtle/tortoise is illegal. They can be bought as food, or used in educational facilities (with permits).

It seems that every day I am having to inform at least one person on Craigslist, or some other sort of local classifieds, that their pet turtle/tortoise, or the turtle/tortoise they are searching for, is illegal to keep. Sometimes I get a response with a thanks for informing them, and they remove the ad, but that's VERY rare. Most of the time, I have to sit there and explain it to them several times, including links to the laws.

You know what's even more aggravating than that? People that her hobbiests who refuse to follow the law, and instead try to find any loophole they can. I try, repeatedly, to explain why this is a bad idea. Our hobby is constantly under attack. Any time you break the law (knowingly, unknowingly, or through 'loopholes') it looks bad on ALL of us.

I agree there are loopholes in the laws, but why exploit them? How do you think that makes us hobbiests look? It's incredibly sad to see our fellow exotic pets lovers 'helping' those looking to shut us down. I am so fed up with it! Why? Why do it?

Here's an idea...instead of exploiting these loopholes, why not start a petition? E-mail the Governor? If that doesn't work, find another state! I don't like the laws here just as much as the next person. I'd LOVE to have some box turtles, or a tortoise. But you know what? I also love being able to keep my other reptiles, and I REFUSE to help darken the 'shadow' over our hobby.

I agree, hon!

Right now, I've been in contact with Senator Chuck Schumer to strengthen NY's animal cruelty laws, and hopefully the whole US. I'm hoping they can draft a new bill for next year's calendar.

We elect them, we pay their wages, and they should vote the way we WANT them to.

There is a group here trying to get the turtle/tortoise laws changed. Luckily they are going about it the right way, and hopefully we get through to someone.

Steve-Honuman from Ciliatus-is probably involved in it on a larger, national level.

I know he belongs to the Long island Turtle Rescue or some such thing. The sea turtles...

Yeah, I remember him! May have to e-mail him...

Don't attorneys use loopholes ever day?
My county has a law banning the ownership of all "constricting" snakes over 5 ft.
Exceptions actually written into the law: Boa Constrictors, and Ball Pythons.
I keep wondering whose special interest that protects?
There is a Black Rat Snake den on my property and I often find them in my out buildings preying on the rodents. Many are over 5 ft. From the wording of the law I could technically be prosecuted for "owning" these snakes because they are "inside" of my barn. They can leave whenever they want, but we don't discourage their presence.

If turtles are legal to own for food, I would raise them for "meat", and make that known as the reason I have them. It would just take me a long time to get around to eating them. As for you sheeple that are so big on "not darkening the hobby"
just screw that! Ridiculous laws like that deserve to be violated by using the loopholes.

Originally Posted by BobOblak

Don't attorneys use loopholes ever day?
My county has a law banning the ownership of all "constricting" snakes over 5 ft.
Exceptions actually written into the law: Boa Constrictors, and Ball Pythons.
I keep wondering whose special interest that protects?
There is a Black Rat Snake den on my property and I often find them in my out buildings preying on the rodents. Many are over 5 ft. From the wording of the law I could technically be prosecuted for "owning" these snakes because they are "inside" of my barn. They can leave whenever they want, but we don't discourage their presence.

If turtles are legal to own for food, I would raise them for "meat", and make that known as the reason I have them. It would just take me a long time to get around to eating them. As for you sheeple that are so big on "not darkening the hobby"
just screw that! Ridiculous laws like that deserve to be violated by using the loopholes.

I have to admit that I kinda of agree with this approach. I mean, if they make such laws with vague terms and are not specific, they're basically asking for loopholes that people to exploit. I say, it serves them right.
----

And did I understand your post correctly, Bob? They have a law against keeping constrictors...but the official exceptions are BPs and boa constrictors?

Originally Posted by BobOblak

Don't attorneys use loopholes ever day?
.

The problem with downing loopholes is that each person or special interest group of people sometimes has the idea in their mind that only they know what THE LAW is.

But the idea that they may have in their mind might be different from what the next person thinks that law means, and obviously IS different to those who walk through the 'loopholes'.

The loopers might not be bad people, they might believe their looped interpretation just like you believe yours. Or, they might believe that if a law is so squishy that the loops are there, that the loops were meant to be there.

If a law is too soft and squishy, get it tightened up. Laws are meant as guidelines for behavior. If the law is so vague that lots of people are on different pages, might it not be that the law itself and not the people is at fault?

Well, I had something all typed out...but hit the wrong button. So I'll just make it short and sweet...

My main thing is these people broadcast it everywhere that they are keeping turtles/tortoise, but are telling the Tennessee Department of Health or the TWRA that they are for food...yet it's all over the internet that they aren't.

Originally Posted by BobOblak

As for you sheeple that are so big on "not darkening the hobby"
just screw that! Ridiculous laws like that deserve to be violated by using the loopholes.

As for this...you obviously aren't too worried about your pets being taken from you, but I sure as hell am.

Originally Posted by lucille

The problem with downing loopholes is that each person or special interest group of people sometimes has the idea in their mind that only they know what THE LAW is.

But the idea that they may have in their mind might be different from what the next person thinks that law means, and obviously IS different to those who walk through the 'loopholes'.

The loopers might not be bad people, they might believe their looped interpretation just like you believe yours. Or, they might believe that if a law is so squishy that the loops are there, that the loops were meant to be there.

If a law is too soft and squishy, get it tightened up. Laws are meant as guidelines for behavior. If the law is so vague that lots of people are on different pages, might it not be that the law itself and not the people is at fault?

I see what you are saying here. I've actually e-mailed a TWRA officer concerning this. Turns out they have nothing to do with the law, it's the Tennessee Department of Health. So, instead, I plan to just write up a nice, informational, e-mail to the Governor concerning the law. Maybe with enough people e-mailing him, telling him the law is ridiculous, we can get it changed.