Notices |
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please note that the information requested during registration will be used to determine your legitimacy as a participant of this site. As such, any information you provide that is determined to be false, inaccurate, misleading, or highly suspicious will result in your registration being rejected. This is designed to try to discourage as much as possible those spammers and scammers that tend to plague sites of this nature, to the detriment of all the legitimate members trying to enjoy the features this site provides for them.
Of particular importance is the REQUIREMENT that you provide your REAL full name upon registering. Sorry, but this is not like other sites where anonymity is more the rule.
Also your TRUE location is important. If the location you enter in your profile field does not match the location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected. As such, I strongly urge registrants to avoid using a VPN service to register, as they are often used by spammers and scammers, and as such will be blocked when discovered when auditing new registrations.
Sorry about all these hoops to jump through, but I am quite serious about blocking spammers and scammers at the gate on this site and am doing the very best that I can to that effect. Trust me, I would rather be doing more interesting things with my time, and wouldn't be making this effort if I didn't think it was worthwhile.
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 04:52 AM
|
#1
|
|
Aptor / Raptor Debate
Per Tremper's site...
non-albino "het" RAPTOR x non-albino "het" RAPTOR
non-albino "het" RAPTOR x Albino "het" RAPTOR
ECLIPSE het albino x non-albino "het" for RAPTOR
ECLIPSE het for albino x Albino "het" RAPTOR
will all produce RAPTORs in one way or another...
The last two crosses, hints very strongly that the RAPTOR is not a simple recessive mutation. HOWEVER, further down on that same page, he states that RAPTOR is actually the albino version of the ECLIPSE mutation.
In all technicality, how can it be possible to be het RAPTOR? If you break down his description, it is basically a red-eyed, patternless, tangerine. Tangerine is NOT a recessive mutation. The new patternless gene very well may be...He is also unsure whether or not the "red-eye" aka ECLIPSE is recessive...Also, if a particular gecko is Albino, it cannot be het Albino too (or is this being thrown around like some individuals with cornsnakes saying their Amels are het Snow ).
So maybe het RAPTOR is incorrect, and it should technically be het TREMPER PATTERNLESS from ECLIPSE lines (at least until the ECLIPSE mutation is proven)?
He also states "It is not known at this time if R.A.P.T.O.R. times R.A.P.T.O.R. results in 100% pure R.A.P.T.O.R.s or if you get 50% R.A.P.T.O.R.s and 50% snake-eyed R.A.P.T.O.R.s."
RAPTOR x RAPTOR must produce 100% "pure" RAPTOR to be a simple recessive mutation (thus making it possible to be het). But that line in itself contradicts itself, because he is speaking as if RAPTOR is alone a single mutation involving only the ECLIPSE/SNAKE-EYE mutations, when in fact, that's not what he states it stands for at the beginning of the page.
Pretty much all of this applies to APTORs minus the "red-eyed" or ECLIPSE mutation.
My main reason for bringing this up is to keep the LGR up to date. I was speaking with a member here privately, and he told me that RAPTOR has been proven recessive. I find, following the rules of genetics, that impossible.
If anyone would like to add to the discussion and enlighten me, please do so!
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 05:37 AM
|
#2
|
|
Before I join in I have to ask, why does Tremper not appear on these forums, the same goes for Craig from TUG. I havent seen them on here once, and yet theyre are 2 very very big names in this business. As far as RAPTORS go, well, I'm lost, c'est la vie mon ami.
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 07:03 AM
|
#3
|
|
I don't know, Stef... but as soon as the acronyms start including letters from non-English alphabets, I'm just going to call them yellow, orange, white, etc.
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 09:27 AM
|
#4
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulSage
I don't know, Stef... but as soon as the acronyms start including letters from non-English alphabets, I'm just going to call them yellow, orange, white, etc.
|
it means that is life my freind in french
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 12:26 PM
|
#5
|
|
Het RAPTOR means Het Red Eyes, you are right you cant have Het Tang or CT. But noone ever said Het RAPTOR, means it is Het for each trait included in the acronym.
What else would APTOR Het for RAPTOR mean? Cant be Het APTOR, if it is one. Its the "R" part he is talking about. Het APTOR Het RAPTOR means nothing more than an APTOR, that is Het for Red Eyes.
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 12:32 PM
|
#6
|
|
I think part of the debate if will het RAPTOR/APTOR produce a APTOR or aRAPTOR. Like with the het act like a het. In many cases I have found this to be true, but what is everyone else finds when breeding this morph?
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 12:36 PM
|
#7
|
|
About the eyes: it does not say that RAPTOR X RAPTOR will not produce 100% RAPTOR, it is IMO basically eluding to the fact not all of the RAPTORs will have solid eyes.
Snake Eyes and RAPTORs are 1 in the same. So if you breed 2 together, you should be able to get a mix of both. It is just variable, like the eyes of Blizzards. Not all RAPTORs have solid eyes, so the term "Snake Eyes" is used.
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 12:44 PM
|
#8
|
|
All I know, is that many of the APTORs produced RAPTORs. I think everyone that bought females hatched them. I knew about the Red Eyed version before it was ever 'unveiled', had asked Ron if the APTORs were Hets. I was told there was a slight chance, and that the female we bought was NOT a Het. LOL
We bred our original APTOR to her, and hatched RAPTORs last year though. Go figure.
Waiting on eggs to be laid yet, from APTOR Het RAPTOR X Poss. Het RAPTOR, and Poss. Het RAPTOR X RAPTOR. So we will see.
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 02:27 PM
|
#9
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovygeckos
Het RAPTOR means Het Red Eyes, you are right you cant have Het Tang or CT. But noone ever said Het RAPTOR, means it is Het for each trait included in the acronym.
What else would APTOR Het for RAPTOR mean? Cant be Het APTOR, if it is one. Its the "R" part he is talking about. Het APTOR Het RAPTOR means nothing more than an APTOR, that is Het for Red Eyes.
|
"Red-Eyes" is the albino form of the ECLIPSE muation. Thus in all technicality, it would be het ECLIPSE, not Red-Eyes or RAPTOR. This is what I've found incredibly misleading. By saying "het RAPTOR" one is implying that it is het for each trait in the acronym, and each trait is proven recessive. I'm a stickler for correct termonology when it comes to mutations. I'm sure I'm also not the only one that has questioned this.
APTOR "het" RAPTOR should actually be APTOR het ECLIPSE
Like my previous anology, it's like some individuals saying their corns are Amel het Snow, which is impossible considering Snow is Amel + Anery and the Amel is already expressing that mutation.
|
|
|
03-11-2006, 03:19 PM
|
#10
|
|
I know.... the 'terminology' for this morph is pretty messed up, I agree w/that.
A non-Albino het Eclipse, is called "Het ECLIPSE Het RAPTOR" if it is Het for Albino too. I guess since it can produce the Albino form.
The acronym is just a name to keep from typing out the same thing 500,000,000 times IMO. OR is not an acronym, and T is just for advertising his last name. LOL Just a catchy name, and nothing more really.
My 'Red Eyed Jungle Albino', is Rons 'Jungle RAPTOR', etc., etc. Well we know that a Jungle is not 'Patternless', if it is an Albino its not Het Albino, so on and so forth. If it is a normal,Het RAPTOR means Het Albino/Het Eclipse. If it is an Albino, it only means it is Het Eclipse. Its not really that big a deal to me, to get out my secret de-coder button. LOL
|
|
|
Join
now to reply to this thread or open new ones
for your questions & comments! FaunaClassifieds.com
is the largest online community about Reptile
& Amphibians, Snakes, Lizards and number one
classifieds service with thousands of ads to look
for. Registration is open to everyone and FREE.
Click Here to Register!
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:36 AM.
|
|