Status check and poll on recent crack down

Originally Posted by shrap

Rich,
I feel for you man. I really do.

Undersatement of the year.

Jim,
In my opinion there are threads in Hell that should not be deleted. One of the main reasons I subscribed to Hell was to have access to those threads that have BOI information.

Originally Posted by Chamco

In my own views, I believe that I called someone both a liar and a thief in a thread in 2004. Like you, I had been the target of their actions. I don't believe that I have used it since, but will not swear to it.

LOL Jim, It has been exactly one month today.

Originally Posted by Chamco

Its the Fauna "red-light" district. As a libertarian leaning person, I happen to have views of prostitution that say its OK if its what you want. I would hope that its just a little bit outside of town though ...... as I don't want to see it, smell it, hear it, etc. That's my answer.

Someone give this man a huge pat on the back. Very well said.

WELL SAID JIM !!!!!!!!! I for one see this as a never ending thread with no one ever having the majority. All the "long timers" on this thread defending the "ruthless enforcement" thought they would have the overwhelming support of the members on this issue but as i see it the votes are pretty even if not slighlty favored to scaling it back a little. In my opinion that right there says something up doesnt it??? You all say let the members have a say, well they are and none of you want to even hear what they are saying or want to meet them in the middle somewhere.
Jim, I for one am on your side in saying that things truly need to be scaled back a bit if there is a liberal or free speechside to this site at all. You dont have to persecute everyone to get your point accross. And yes 10.00 is a lot of money to some people, it just might be the difference of having thier next meal, you never know just how bad the next person has it.
I dont know who mentioned it earlier in this thread about getting rid of Hell but in my opinion hell is the only place that you can actually say what you want (to a point, because it is somewhat moderated) to get your point accross and a heck of as lot of people joined hell just for that reason, I remember a lot of people saying "no one will pay to keep hell!!", well guess what......a lot of people, A LOT OF PEOPLE...have paid to join hell and more and more people keep joining, the freedom of speech, the chance at some good humor, the chance to chat openly with friend and the opportunity to settle disputes has a value to it and people realize it and are willing to pay for it. So the the "NAY SAYERS" of hell, I say, if you dont like it dont join it!!! Why complain about it if you dont even know whats going on in there???? Are people so self concious that they dont want a place like hell where someone might just be talking about them?

Jim, Don't back down!!!! You have support here !!!!! I agree with you !!!! Wendy, I noticed you

Originally Posted by dragonflyreptiles

Point being, the rules are the rules, PERIOD!

Like em... who cares
Abide by them.... one really should
Sliding by the mods.. a gift that finds the members lacking in the ability to report abuse

All in all, what are you posting for? A less strict system as I can see it.

Pick your battles, those you know you cannot win, drop it, those you think you can win, think twice before speaking, those you know you can win, think 3 times before speaking.

All in all this entire topic is and always was a dead horse.

Wendy, you are really surprising me in your views on this thread.

Nicholas,
I thank you for your support, but must also confess that I was the one who presented the argument for jettisoning HELL. While I may have raised it to see how it fit in with the mindset of the management of the entire site, it was still I who attempted to drop-kick that one thru the goalposts of life

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

Undersatement of the year.

It's only February man!!


Just for the record I did vote for scaling things back a bit. While I am the first to clown around and make jest of anything I can, I see no reason in being rude and insulting to people JUST for the sake of being rude and insulting. I for one am glad to see that that element of this site has diminished greatly.

Originally Posted by nicolai

. You dont have to persecute everyone to get your point accross.

Nicolai, you seem to be moving the center of responsibility by focussing on the enforcement of rules rather than being puzzled, as I am, as to why some people here cannot monitor their own language in the first place, which I am SURE that the VAST majority of them CAN do in their own lives: in church, in front of their employers, etc.

In fact it is those people who use abusive language who are the persecutors as evidenced by by their lack of self control, getting THEIR point across by being discourteous and nasty..

People should be more responsible than some of them are for monitoring their own choice of language here. Those who can and do use ordinary, common courtesy are not going to have to worry about anyone's 'point'.


This here is not a game, I am here to tell you that the nasty hurtful language that some people have chosen to use in the past is not a victimless crime, people are HURT by it and the board and community as a whole, as well as the reputation of Fauna, is damaged by that kind of behavior.

Originally posted by Dennis:

LOL Jim, It has been exactly one month today.

Some of you have way too much time on your hands. However, the word "it" was referring to the use of the word "liar" in the expanded conversation between Paul and I, or even if parsed as you have above, then "it" would be "a liar and a thief". However, I did refer to someone as a thief in the post that you reference, and quoted that a mod had called this person a "liar". Somewhat shockingly, as it was an antagonistic post, I received positive rep points from the mod for it, although I did not view that as a change in policy, just an abherration. I was surprised, to put it mildly, as it was an antagonistic post. I think it also of note that the entity was not participating in the thread, in which case my comments would have been more directly inflammatory. Next assignment Dennis, when was the last time I called someone a jerk?

[quote]Originally posted by Lucille:
Nicolai, you seem to be moving the center of responsibility by focussing on the enforcement of rules rather than being puzzled, as I am, as to why some people here cannot monitor their own language in the first place, which I am SURE that the VAST majority of them CAN do in their own lives: in church, in front of their employers, etc.

In fact it is those people who use abusive language who are the persecutors as evidenced by by their lack of self control, getting THEIR point across by being discourteous and nasty..

People should be more responsible than some of them are for monitoring their own choice of language here. Those who can and do use ordinary, common courtesy are not going to have to worry about anyone's 'point'.[quote]

While I agree with all of your points about personal accountability, I Nicholai's defense, this thread bagan with a poll about the enforcement of the rules, and not about the broader social expectations. I highlighted a portion of your post, about conduct in "church, at work, etc". I would like to conjecture that if you were sitting in church next to someone who you claim had just scammed you out of $1K, or working with someone who stole your paycheck, that both the sermon would be disrupted, and the water cooler might become a projectile. These are otherwise decent folks reacting. To many of us, the issue is not, in the words of Rodney King "Why can't we all just get along", but rather how do we maintain a forum for dialogue when we cannot.

I also understand your views, as I am aware of some of the tangent flame wars for which there should have been no expectation of uncivil behavior, but there they were anyway. They were (and are) childish, inexcusable, and worthy of no approval.

Nicholas,

WELL SAID JIM !!!!!!!!! I for one see this as a never ending thread with no one ever having the majority.

And that’s fine; it’s comforting to verify that people can have different viewpoints and still be able to manifest them in a civil way.

All the "long timers" on this thread defending the "ruthless enforcement" thought they would have the overwhelming support of the members on this issue but as i see it the votes are pretty even if not slighlty favored to scaling it back a little.

As a “long timer” here I didn’t expect to see 100% agreement on the opinions expressed. In all honesty I would probably feel disappointed if we had.

In my opinion that right there says something up doesnt it??? You all say let the members have a say, well they are and none of you want to even hear what they are saying or want to meet them in the middle somewhere.

What does it say? That we can all get along while having differing opinions? Is that so bad? What’s been proposed by some is in reality a middle ground. Some feel that at this point in time people are not yet ready to act civilly in that middle ground. That’s maybe why some “long timers” feel that way. Maybe they have been around long enough to intuitively know what might happen in the event of a softening of the rues. Usually one of the characteristics of “long timers” and by extension “old timers” is the resilience to change. Oddly enough what we are seeing here is something completely different. There are “long timers” asking and supporting the change (stricter as opposed to the traditionally lax rules) whereas there are “newcomers” opposing that change, that’s a refreshing new attitude!

Jim, I for one am on your side in saying that things truly need to be scaled back a bit if there is a liberal or free speechside to this site at all.

Just remember that our rights end where the rights of another individual begin. One thing is to be liberal, a different one is to allow those same liberties to undermine the freedom of speech of other individuals. Some would love to be able to call people names without accepting the consequences. But that’s not the way it works in real life. In all the years I’ve been here for the first time I’ve noticed change in the way people interact with each other. And you know what maybe this new approach is helping them out with the approach they have to their life outside this site. It is quite obvious that some people behave exactly the same in here as compared to their day-to-day-life. They were asked to change, they couldn’t, and they followed the fate of the dinosaurs.

The current system is restricting that freedom of expression You dont have to persecute everyone to get your point accross.

We agree 100% on that one. You can choose to call someone a “liar” or you can tell him “that’s not how things happened”.

And yes 10.00 is a lot of money to some people, it just might be the difference of having thier next meal, you never know just how bad the next person has it.

Agreed again, make sure then that you don’t have to pay the $10. The example of the speeding ticket has been brought up repeatedly. You may get one, two, even three but as it gets steeper every time sooner or later you learn your lesson. Now in the case at hand if $10 is the difference between having your next meal or not I would suggest that individual to let go off the internet service, and spend the time typing in front of the computer searching for a job.

I dont know who mentioned it earlier in this thread about getting rid of Hell but in my opinion hell is the only place that you can actually say what you want (to a point, because it is somewhat moderated) to get your point accross and a heck of as lot of people joined hell just for that reason, I remember a lot of people saying "no one will pay to keep hell!!", well guess what......a lot of people, A LOT OF PEOPLE...have paid to join hell and more and more people keep joining, the freedom of speech, the chance at some good humor, the chance to chat openly with friend and the opportunity to settle disputes has a value to it and people realize it and are willing to pay for it. So the the "NAY SAYERS" of hell, I say, if you dont like it dont join it!!! Why complain about it if you dont even know whats going on in there???? Are people so self concious that they dont want a place like hell where someone might just be talking about them?

Initially I thought that the HELL concept was not a good idea, even when it was free. I was obviously wrong. There are people not only frequenting the forum but are even willing to pay! Hope those are not some of the ones that could use those $10 for their next meal!

Are you proposing then to turn the whole site into some kind of “purgatory” before jumping directly to Hell?

Regards.

Purgatory ! Now there's a word I hadn't heard lately ! In all honesty, Rich has explained why my wishes for an added tier or two in the penalty system for antagonistic posts is not practical. But if it were, along the lines of a "suspension", then I nominate that the current line which reads "Fined and Suspended" be adjusted to "Suspended - In Purgatory" while the offender does their Penance. Just a little Sunday morning humor from an Irish Catholic