FL Water managers want to ban python imports

I can't say I'd disagree with banning the importation of burms, not just in florida, but nationwide. We have a more than adequate captive population to support the needs of the pet industry indefinately.
Something is coming in Florida though. No way around that. There's way too much publicity right now and the lawmakers are going to do something even if it's wrong.

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Add water managers to the growing list of people who want to put the squeeze on Burmese pythons in the Everglades.

The board of the South Florida Water Management District asked federal regulators this week to take a step toward banning imports of the Asian reptiles, which can grow as large as 26 feet and 200 pounds - and, if one one famous case is an indication, seem to have acquired a taste for gator.

"The whole world saw a photograph several months ago of a large python eating our largest predator, the American alligator," said Dan Thayer, the district manager in charge of controlling noxious species.

That image of a swallowed gator inside a ruptured 13-foot python, first published in October in The Miami Herald, sounded a global alarm about the Everglades' rapidly breeding python population.

But the python's threat to South Florida's ecosystem goes beyond one shocking photograph, Thayer said.

He said district workers are finding wading birds inside the guts of captured pythons, indicating that the invaders are preying on a host of the Everglades' most valuable species.

"Here you have a snake that climbs and swims," he said. "Bird rookeries are at risk."

Soon after the snake photo appeared, pythons became the prime suspects in the disappearances of a turkey and a Siamese cat near Miami.

Scientists have bemoaned the python pandemic for years, blaming it largely on owners who release the snakes when they tire of caring for them.

Calls for bans have come in recent months from some state legislators as well as Palm Beach County Commissioner Mary McCarty, who last month urged the county to prohibit sales of pythons and iguanas.

The water district's board - chaired by McCarty's husband, Kevin - voted unanimously Wednesday to ask the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to declare the Burmese python an "injurious" species.

Under a 106-year-old federal law called the Lacey Act, the government then could ban imports of the snakes, except for uses such as research or education.

Bans under the Lacey Act already apply to 17 categories of creatures, including the mongoose, the walking catfish and the Indian wild dog.

In 2002, the wildlife service added the snakehead, a voracious, land-crawling Asian fish that has taken over the Potomac River and other waterways in Maryland and Virginia.

Wildlife service spokeswoman Valerie Fellows said she doesn't know whether her agency will follow the water district's request.

Kevin McCarty suggested dispatching the district's top in-house lobbyists to plead its case to the feds.

"We'll do more than just send them a letter," he said.

Thayer said he expects some opposition from the exotic-reptile industry.

But one longtime reptile dealer said a ban might be a good idea "for the poor snakes' sake," even though he called the pythons no threat to the Everglades.

"They're not breeding in the Everglades," said Ronald Dupont, president of Wild Cargo Pets & Supplies in suburban West Palm Beach, who has worked with pythons and other reptiles for more than 60 years. "They're not eating deer. They're not displacing anything."

Dupont also insisted that pythons don't eat anything in the alligator family, and said the famous snake-vs.-gator photo from the Everglades must have been staged.

Still, he said Florida's rampant development is making it ever more likely that an escaped python will end up getting shot, being run over by a car or eating someone's pet.

He said any ban should apply only to the largest snakes, such as Burmese pythons, reticulated pythons and anacondas, not to smaller pythons that grow only a few feet long.

Dupont and retired Islamorada snake dealer Jim Kavney both said they'd support the less-draconian strategy of requiring permits for people who want to own large pythons.

Requiring a $100 permit would cut down on purchases by irresponsible owners, said Kavney, owner of the company Hiss 'n' Things.

Dupont said he also likes the idea of implanting an identifying chip in pet pythons so that authorities can track down their owners if the snakes end up in the wild.

"If they're going to pay the money and they microchip them and they go through all this, that's a responsible person," Dupont said.

He said he knows there are a lot of irresponsible owners, typically men in their 20s and 30s, who sometimes just leave their unwanted snakes in the oven when they move out of an apartment.

"About once a month, a landlord will come in and say a tenant moved out and there's a snake in the house," he said.

Thayer said he doesn't know whether the feds should ban the snakes outright, or require permits and microchips. But he said the government has to do something.

"There has to be a line drawn on what is a reasonable pet," Thayer said.

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Originally Posted by Clay Davenport

I can't say I'd disagree with banning the importation of burms, not just in florida, but nationwide. We have a more than adequate captive population to support the needs of the pet industry indefinately.
Something is coming in Florida though. No way around that. There's way too much publicity right now and the lawmakers are going to do something even if it's wrong.

I cannot agree more. Being that burms sell for (from what I have heard) $25 at shows, there is no reason why these animals cannot be under control. Why import any more?

Under a 106-year-old federal law called the Lacey Act, the government then could ban imports of the snakes, except for uses such as research or education.

Hopefully they will not go this far, with the reptile industry so big in Florida, it will be hard to add burms to that list. What will they do with all the pythons having to be turned over? Kill them? That's nice.

Thayer said he expects some opposition from the exotic-reptile industry.

From my lurking and talking to people many people in this industry actually support the idea of more control on these large snakes. If a permit is needed, then they will pay up and support it. We would rather have responsible owners instead of dead beat ones.

But one longtime reptile dealer said a ban might be a good idea "for the poor snakes' sake," even though he called the pythons no threat to the Everglades.

"They're not breeding in the Everglades," said Ronald Dupont, president of Wild Cargo Pets & Supplies in suburban West Palm Beach, who has worked with pythons and other reptiles for more than 60 years. "They're not eating deer. They're not displacing anything."

Dupont also insisted that pythons don't eat anything in the alligator family, and said the famous snake-vs.-gator photo from the Everglades must have been staged.

Not living in Florida, how much truth is behind these statements? Are they breeding in the wild? There is an issue that needs to be looked into if a 15 foot snake pops up every month in someone's backyard. Venomous snakes can be relocated, adult burms are a bit harder to find a proper home for.

It seems that Dupont is worried about his business, I guess I would be too. These people are the ones that can help set good laws on animals, not just complain about them. People look up to them because they work with snakes for a living.

He said any ban should apply only to the largest snakes, such as Burmese pythons, reticulated pythons and anacondas, not to smaller pythons that grow only a few feet long.

Dupont and retired Islamorada snake dealer Jim Kavney both said they'd support the less-draconian strategy of requiring permits for people who want to own large pythons.

Requiring a $100 permit would cut down on purchases by irresponsible owners, said Kavney, owner of the company Hiss 'n' Things.

Dupont said he also likes the idea of implanting an identifying chip in pet pythons so that authorities can track down their owners if the snakes end up in the wild.

"If they're going to pay the money and they microchip them and they go through all this, that's a responsible person," Dupont said.

Thayer said he doesn't know whether the feds should ban the snakes outright, or require permits and microchips. But he said the government has to do something.

I agree with both of these quotes. If a dog must be microchipped to be adopted from a shelter, why not microchip a snake that will reach 15 feet. People are less likely to drop a large python in the wild because it got too big if they know that the animal has a microchip that can be traced back to the owner.

I don't know why he said that about them not breeding. I think it's obvious they're breeding in the glades. There's just no reason for them not to be.
The environment is agreeing with them, and they are surviving well out there.
A couple hundred have been caught in the last two years. If they breed so easily in a cage in someone's basement, there's nothing keeping them from breeding in the everglades.
Besides, the nile monitor and green iguana, have already established breeding colonies in the wild down there, I don't know what would make someone suggest the burms can't.

I really like the microchipping idea, as well as the permit. I believe if all giant constrictors were chipped, and there was a $10,000 fine for releasing one or allowing one to escape into the wild, then the practice would virtually cease with the owners knowing if their snake is captured and scanned they're caught.
The permit would have the added bonus of keeping many irresponsible people from buying one in the first place.

Originally Posted by Junkyard

Under a 106-year-old federal law called the Lacey Act, the government then could ban imports of the snakes, except for uses such as research or education.

Hopefully they will not go this far, with the reptile industry so big in Florida, it will be hard to add burms to that list. What will they do with all the pythons having to be turned over? Kill them? That's nice.

The way I read this statement it meant the government could ban the importation of burms under the Lacey Act, not the keeping of them, so it would not affect the ones currently in people's collections or their offspring.

I think that banning the importation of an animal that is already so established in collections is going to be pretty tough to regulate. Actually I didn't know that they were still importing burms. Are they talking across State lines or from Asia?
Anyway, if all of sudden there is going to be a $100(or more) charge to keep your burm, or any other large reptile, then there is going to be a lot more animals released. It's like when the city decides to start charging to take your stove and refrigerator. They end up in trash piles on deadend roads.

The micro chip is a great idea, it just may take years to implement.

This guy Dupont makes a statement about the pythons not breeding in the Everglades. And he has been in the pet reptile business for a number of years, I think he doesn't know what he is speaking about when he says they are "not breeding". Yeah, right.

This guy Dupont makes a statement about the pythons not breeding in the Everglades. And he has been in the pet reptile business for a number of years, I think he doesn't know what he is speaking about when he says they are "not breeding". Yeah, right. They are eating everything they can catch. And if a small deer happens to drop by in front of one of these 15' beauties, you better believe it, they are going to give it their all to try to eat that 'food item'.

Anyone who thinks these animals are not breeding is a fool. Too many pop up every day to think otherwise... and who would go through the motions to stage that alligator incident that got country wide exposure?

Anyway, I'd like to say that as a Floridian, I completely agree that something has to be done about these large constrictors in the marketplace and in the wild. The Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) have already done enough damage and spent millions attempting to correct the damage they did in the 70s. It's been a multi-million dollar project to save the animals and everglades down there and now to have large nuisance predators eating what we've spent so much money on to save is just a kick in the pants.

$100 permit is nothing to a responsible keeper and would deter, if not stop the impulse buying of large constrictors. I also believe that microchipping them is an amazingly awesome idea. That way they can catch the SOBs that are releasing these animals or at least deter anyone from doing so.

As a boa guy myself, I will not be included in this system, but I see lots of keepers of the giants being all for this permit system as well. Too many responsible keepers see this as a blessing and not a deterrent to keeping reptiles. It's going to keep potentially dangerous constrictors where they belong, in the hands of responsible, qualified individuals, not teenage kids or irresponsible idiots.

The micro chip idea is the best idea that has been suggested so far. Also, the $100 for the reptile permit is an excellent idea , but I think it should be raised to $250; with most of the money going to research and conservation efforts that may be ongoing for the benefit of the Everglades.

Originally Posted by Clay Davenport

I don't know why he said that about them not breeding. I think it's obvious they're breeding in the glades. There's just no reason for them not to be.
The environment is agreeing with them, and they are surviving well out there.
A couple hundred have been caught in the last two years. If they breed so easily in a cage in someone's basement, there's nothing keeping them from breeding in the everglades.
Besides, the nile monitor and green iguana, have already established breeding colonies in the wild down there, I don't know what would make someone suggest the burms can't.

I had figured that them breeding in the Everglades was more then probable, but was already happening. Heck, if they want wild caughts, people can go out and start collecting instead of shipping them in from overseas.

The way I read this statement it meant the government could ban the importation of burms under the Lacey Act, not the keeping of them, so it would not affect the ones currently in people's collections or their offspring.

That makes more sense.

Is this going to be a yearly permit and how many animals are covered under one piece of paper? I can see a $100 fee per household, but is there going to be a 10 count limit then a person needs to add another $100 or $500 for an unlimited number? Since Florida is the leading state in the reptile industry, this may end up setting a standard for many states. In fact, this may help raise size limit bans in some areas because money would be given to the government. Since politicians only see $$$$ signs in life, this can be a good thing.

Be careful guys. You may just get what you wished for. The reason the NRA fights every piece of legislation that concerns the restriction of guns is because once you give a little it's too easy for more to follow. Once the ball starts rolling down hill it picks up speed until it hits the bottom. You know that along with Burms, the big five would be included. Then why not boas some of them get real big.
That's why I would be in favor of a permit system as opposed to banning. Then we are not loosing anything really.

Personally, I would like to see a ban on the importation of a few species. Ball pythons come to mind as well as South American boas. But, I wouldn't support it for the reasons stated above.