Ben Siegel Incident

Apparently, I've got to stop being stingy with the karma - it says I have to spread it around before giving to you again, Dennis.

Other than that, I'll agree that speculation on the cause of death is useless. Allergy to roach droppings/parts is almost as common as allergy to dust mites; though I don't know that this would include discoids. Since the deceased's period of distress apparently lasted at least an hour, a number of factors could have come into play...so the final result could have been due to a combination of things. If what has been said is true, the "friend" is the person that could have altered the course of things, but failed to do so....hopefully he is aware of that, and carries it with him for a long time to come.

The sad part is that his family has suffered an unexpected, and wholly unnecessary, loss.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

OFF TOPIC RANT

Gosh, I think I'm going to have to state something controversial.

Oh my God, she mention the word God! Hurry, hit her with a stick!

Hmm, paraphrase "So you respect her religion but shut up about it and never mention that word, shutter "God". After-all, I'm an atheist and you'll respect my beliefs by never mentioning yours? WTF!

Sounds about right.

Lucille doesn't go around preaching her religious beliefs in any posts that I can think of but the one time she mentions GOD she is quick to be cut down about it.

Look, there are a lot of atheist on this forum. There are a lot people who have a lot of different beliefs. I myself have stepped out of line in some criticism in the past (Something about someone who believed they were a vampire and I made a lot of jokes about it) but come on.

You see it used to be and still is to some extent depending on what type of forum you are on that atheist would get attacked for not believing. Now it seems just the mere mention of the word GOD sends atheist into panic mode.

You mention GOD. Oh no you didn't, Whomp! You don't respect her beliefs. You don't. You just want her to respect yours by not mentioning GOD period.

One who is religious and believes in GOD would say, GOD bless You, He/she is with god when someone passes. You show no respect by telling people to shut up because you don't believe what they believe.

All you want is none to say nothing because you believe nothing. That is respect to you? No, respect would be to allow a religious person to state "he is with GOD" "He is with his maker" that is what religious people do.

If you don't believe that, then say I don't believe in GOD but lets not tell people to shut up because they believe when someone dies they are with GOD and they state it.

"Let's not mention religion" When somebody dies! When else would a religious person mention it? Come on!

How dare she.

GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD

By the way, if you think I'm only saying this because I have a firm belief you would be wrong. I'm just tired of people belittling people who do have a belief and also when someone has none. She didn't hurt anything with her comment and to be respectful of other peoples religion or lack of it doesn't mean you should never mention your own. Particularly at a time mentioning it is part of your belief system.

Personally, I'm getting kind of partial to the Ancient Alien Astronaut Theory. May God have mercy on my soul.

Thank god someone said it.
Dennis, probably the best post I've read on here since...well...ever. I might print it out and frame it for some people I know.
Cheers to you sir.

Excellent rant, Dennis. Thank you

THAT was awesome Dennis.
Totally awesome.


On topic:

I said in a post on facebook saying this:

....whatever happened at midnight maddness was an unfortunate event and is just, very sad. Good Thoughts and Prayers to friends and family.

Whatever happened, it happened and lets move on.
Nobody needs to be slandered by anyone else. Who cares who he was going to give the snake too after he won the contest? Who cares if he ate 50000 roaches, or just 5?
It happened.
Its over.

Lets just wait for more news from reliable sources (read non-media hyped up crap), and find out exactly what happened than try and draw our own conclusions and play detective.

I do not understand why there were so many people regarded so highly in this community that were promoting this event in the first place. We need everyone to know of the responsible hobbyists yet the biggest people in the industry are showing off the irresponsible.

instead of everyone promoting a party, why dont you go promote something that is educating the public about the responsible side of this hobby.

Originally Posted by dustinntech

instead of everyone promoting a party, why dont you go promote something that is educating the public about the responsible side of this hobby.

Dustin, just look at our society as a whole. Nothing against Ben or referencing this incident but when is responsibility promoted anywhere anymore?

You can have a educational night or you can have a bug eating contest. I'm wondering what's going to draw more attention? Bug eating seems to have caught peoples attention with fear factor and survival type shows as of late. It's something different and intriguing to the majority of Americans. Oh, and I can't forget gross to a lot of people as well. Which also drives some to be interested and watch.

I really can't fault Ben or anyone trying to have a fun night and promote their business. I understand some in this community might look down on something like this because reptile keepers are already at a disadvantage when it comes to the general public but so many industries promote in the same way.

Personally, I'm not a fan of these types of competitions. Gorging yourself to you blow. However, I am fan of people knowing that they can eat insects. Not for entertainment value but survival and I have eaten them.

I think people are worried only because of the perception of reptile keepers. If someone in some other industry was giving away a car to promote their business with the same contest, I doubt other members of that person's business community would hold them responsible for the image of everyone in that particular business.

Ben has a business that deals with reptiles. While none of us likes to see bad press within this community it is just his business and I think it is a little much to put the weight of the image of the hobby on his back for this promotion.

I don't know Ben personally and never been to his place but he has been around a very long time. I could be wrong but like most that I know that have had a brick and mortar business he has probably done many types of educational events in store and out.

This was just meant to be a fun entertaining event with some publicity.

In today's world this kind of thing passes for such. I don't fault Ben for that.

I mean just look around you. There is so many important serious things happening around us that we should be getting educated about and promoting responsibility. Instead we are nation with top viewed and rated shows like honey boo boo. It's sad but that is us as a whole.

Unfortunately, These types of events is what people respond to. Frankly though, it is his choice and all those that participated. To each their own. They weren't harming anyone else. One person harmed himself.

Originally Posted by dustinntech

I do not understand why there were so many people regarded so highly in this community that were promoting this event in the first place. We need everyone to know of the responsible hobbyists yet the biggest people in the industry are showing off the irresponsible.

instead of everyone promoting a party, why dont you go promote something that is educating the public about the responsible side of this hobby.

While some may see that as the politically correct perspective, I think it's a defeatist mentality. It's only seen as "irresponsible" since someone ended up dying. That's not something that really could have been anticipated. Some are so quick to shoulder their reptile lobbyist banners and walk on eggshells for fear of how the straights will choose to see us. If it's come to that, we've already lost; lost sight of a big part of why we started keeping reptiles in the first place: that it used to be fun.

We got some sense of enjoyment out of keeping our weird pets, and "god" forbid, maybe showing them off a bit. Of course, this event was meant to be a public spectacle, but I don't think that that needs to be seen as a bad thing. It was a gathering and celebration of what we once loved, before it became so much more the norm to look down on us for our hobby. There's a whole society of people who, based on nothing more than fear and lack of understanding, would love to pigeonhole us into the lunatic fringe.

While we may not be able to do much to change their deep-seated revulsion for our pets, I don't think we should be so quick to seemingly validate their views by willingly skulking away into self-imposed exile. Hiding our animals behind closed doors like some shameful secret. You can only keep handing over so much power before you'll soon realize that you have none left for yourself. I think that's exactly what we'd be doing, by living our own lives according to others' standards, while having precious little respect for our own.

Well stated, Dan & Dennis.

I have been dealing with discoids and other roach species for many years. I dont think that an allergic reaction is the main cause of his death but I do feel like he did have some sort of allergic reaction to them. Many people are allergic to roaches and dont even know it, this can be a sad case of blind luck

I have to agree and say it it just an odd case of blind luck... period. Shame a fun event ended in tragedy. Hopefully it doesn't put an end to future events of this nature (but im sure it will) and Ben doesn't suffer any legal consequences. Thats my two cents!