Inbreeds Getting Weak?

Annoyed, I pay really good money for inbreed (Line Breed Tangs) and the Breeders tend to lay bad eggs.The breeder I get for cheap, lay nothing but good eggs every time, it seems to be getting harder to get a good quality gecko that produces. You can only buy so many $500 dollar breeders which give you only a few good eggs a year, than you have a $40 gecko that knocks out 13 clutches of health geckos.

Has anyone else noticed a trend, could some breeders line just be getting weak?

It’s getting to the point that $500+ dollars gets you a nice pet, not a breeder.

~ Just Venting ~
(I see the so many posts and so many bad eggs.)

Interesting. I have never noticed a connection between inbred leos and females that do not produce very well. Tremper would be the one to ask about this probably, since he has been inbreeding so much for so long.

Shoot, for $500 you should be getting an awesome, orange, knock your socks off female tangerine! I would like to see pics of the geckos(s) in question and also would be interesting in knowing what breeder these came from. You can pm me or email me kelli@hisss.net if you don't want to post it here.

I would recommend that if you truly believe the problem is an inbred line, you cross these females to completely unrelated males, then perhaps hold back some of the offspring females for next year, and purchase an unrelated male to breed them to.

Sounds like a good Idea to me! I'm not into the Inbreeding thing. Sure it gave us all these different morphs. I didn't know it was from inbreeding till recently. (OK I live under a Rock... LOL!) Really though. Why not get a new unrelated male or female & breed them with your line you have now... inbreeding if Wrong & Immoral!

Steve X.

Originally Posted by Geckobiz

Annoyed, I pay really good money for inbreed (Line Breed Tangs) and the Breeders tend to lay bad eggs.The breeder I get for cheap, lay nothing but good eggs every time, it seems to be getting harder to get a good quality gecko that produces. You can only buy so many $500 dollar breeders which give you only a few good eggs a year, than you have a $40 gecko that knocks out 13 clutches of health geckos.

Has anyone else noticed a trend, could some breeders line just be getting weak?

It’s getting to the point that $500+ dollars gets you a nice pet, not a breeder.

~ Just Venting ~
(I see the so many posts and so many bad eggs.)

Honestly Joe, I would look twards your husbandry before blaming it on inbred tangerines or on another breeder......

I spent some pretty big bucks on tangs and they are all laying fertile eggs...... I just had a problem with my sunglow this year, but I am certain things will be better for her next season.....

Originally Posted by AquamanX

inbreeding if Wrong & Immoral!

Steve X.

Wrong and immoral???? Yeah, if you are a human being...... Repitiles do not live by our morals or religious beliefs.....

Please stop with this "immoral" crap....

greg is correct, also if you have first year breeder leos some just do not crank out the eggs like a second or third year breeder

Wrong and immoral??? Steve, do you think that animals do not inbreed in the wild? Does the alpha male lion not breed his daughters? Same with wolves and other social mammals? Do you think that reptiles in the wild stop in the middle of breeding if they realize that they are related? How did Hog Island Boas come to look as they do? They are an insular group of BCI that has been highly inbred over many generations and has selected for traits that offer a survival benefit.

You seem to be applying your personal and perhaps religious beliefs to a subject about which you appear to have little understanding.

There is no question that multiple, successive breedings of closely related individuals in any species can have deleterious effects, but it is also possible that it can produce spectacular animals. A responsible breeder watches closely for this and adds outside genes when it is appropriate to do so.

Gregg and Robin are both right plus you may want to read one of the other threads that is near the top right now. It looks like supplements play a far bigger role than we may have imagine in the past. Jim you also make a very valid point. I think you should take all aspects of your situation in account before laying any blame. Most likely you will find the problem if you just step back for a minute and honestly look at the situation.

Originally Posted by Jim O

Wrong and immoral??? Steve, do you think that animals do not inbreed in the wild? Does the alpha male lion not breed his daughters? Same with wolves and other social mammals? Do you think that reptiles in the wild stop in the middle of breeding if they realize that they are related? How did Hog Island Boas come to look as they do? They are an insular group of BCI that has been highly inbred over many generations and has selected for traits that offer a survival benefit.

You seem to be applying your personal and perhaps religious beliefs to a subject about which you appear to have little understanding.

There is no question that multiple, successive breedings of closely related individuals in any species can have deleterious effects, but it is also possible that it can produce spectacular animals. A responsible breeder watches closely for this and adds outside genes when it is appropriate to do so.

Right on Jim..... Well said..... I agree 100%......

The Hog Island boa is just one of the many great examples of isolated populations that have no choice but to inbreed......

Funny how a post or two pops up mentioning inbreeding in leos and everyone begins mentioning it as if it were a new concern..............

Many breeders have been inbreeding leos for MANY years with no ill effects. In fact Ron Tremper claims to have bred his lines together for more than 25 years with no new introductions.... and no flaws due to this method. Personally I'm not all for it but I have no reason to knock it either, I have witnessed no such flaws or concern.

I think I'll start a new random rumor next week.... for the hell of it.... just to see how many people run with it

I like to pouint and laugh.