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Go Back   FaunaClassifieds > Reptile & Amphibian - Snake Discussion Forums > Kingsnakes & Milksnakes Discussion Forum

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Old 12-22-2008, 10:36 PM   #1
ssshane
Jelly

I am a little lost now. As I mentioned, I have been trying to learn as much as possible about the Fla Kings. I have been trying to play catch up with the PB/Jelly craze. I found emails to Rainer Weishaupl dating back to Nov 07 asking questions. I thought I was getting a better grip on it, even after seeing his photos in the other thread.

Then I read this:

Lets talk about your "Pewter" ... Now you bred a Jelly to a 2x het (White-sided and Peanut Butter) and got that snake (the Pewter)... there was NO AXANTHIC in the Origianl "mix"... but now the "Pewter" is an Axanthic-Jelly? Where'd the Axanthic come from (and remember i KNOW who bred the 2x hets!)

Putting all the name calling and other stuff aside, if these are facts, how can it be? I am not fully understanding what the "jelly" is capable of. And before anyone gets bent out of shape, I am just trying to learn more, and I am sure I am asking the right group of people for the answers. Thank you in advance.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 11:02 PM   #2
ZFelicien
Lets break it down

Here is so info from an email i sent you before the KS.com Foolishness:

here's a break down:

Peanutbutter X Amelanistic T- = 100% Jelly

Jelly X Peanutbutter = 50% (of entire clutch) Jelly & the other 50% of your clutch will be PB

Jelly x Amelanistic T- = 50% Jelly & 50% Amel T-

Jelly x Jelly = 50% Jelly, 25% PB & 25% Amel T-

Jelly x HET Peanutbutter = 25% Jelly, 25% PB, 25% HET PB & 25% HET Amel T-

Jelly x HET Amelansitic T- = 25% Jelly, 25% Amel T-, 25% HET PB & 25% HET Amel T-

Jelly x NORMAL HET FOR NOTHING = 50% HET PB and 50% HET Amel T-

(** the percentages represent the percentage of the entire clutch**)

Lets say you want to breed Jelly x (Hypo, Axanthic or Lavender): the results will be the same. for this example we'll just use Hypo.

Jelly x Hypo = 50% 2x het Hypo & PB ... 50% 2x het Hypo & Amel T-


Ok Jelly x a 2x mutation (ghost, snow, hybino): for this example we'll use ghost.

Jelly x Ghost = 50% 3x het Hypo, Axanthic & PB ... 50% 3x het Hypo, Axanthic & Amel T-


Jelly x a 3x mutation (although one hasn't been produced as yet lets use a "pearl" (Hypomelanistic-Snow) in this example)

Jelly x Pearl = 50% 4x het Hypo, Axan, Lav & PB ... 50% 4x het Hypo, Axan, Lav & Amel T-

When you breed Jelly to a normal or another morph 1/2 of the clutch will be HET PB and the other 1/2 will be HET Amel T- being that PB and Amel T- are located on the same Locus it is IMPOSSIBLE for them both to exist simultaneously as HET in a single animal... an animal containing PB and Amel t- genes at the same time will be a VISUAL JELLY.

Here's the beneficially part: Amel and PB can be viewed as such: the same GENE expressed in two totally different ways. but combining them will always yield a mutation.

for example from any of the above pairings if you were to hold back 1.1 you can end up with one the following pairs:

1. Het PB male x Het PB Female = you get PB's and poss. hets

2. Het Amel T- male x Het Amel T- Female = you get Amel T-'s and poss. het

3. Het Amel T- x Het PB= you get Jellies and poss. hets (some poss het PB and other poss het T-)

so regardless of the pairing you end up with a morph!!!! (can't beat that!)

The problem is people look at the Jelly mutation as a double morph but it's NOT... Jelly is a single mutation (comprised on two. If you think of it as such it would be easier...


Now the "Pewter" ... Jelly x 2x het (PB & WS)= PB's poss het WS and Jellies poss het WS

The "Pewter" may just be (and most likely is) a variation on the Jelly Morph.

Thats the beauty of sexual reproduction! VARIATIONS!

you can't magically get a gene to appear where it wasn't in the 1st place... It's like a chemical equation... your Reactant MUST equal your Products (i.e. what you put in is what you get out... never created or destroyed... transfered/translated maybe... appear out of thin air... No)... None of that "David Blaine" stuff here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssshane View Post
I am a little lost now. As I mentioned, I have been trying to learn as much as possible about the Fla Kings. I have been trying to play catch up with the PB/Jelly craze. I found emails to Rainer Weishaupl dating back to Nov 07 asking questions. I thought I was getting a better grip on it, even after seeing his photos in the other thread.

Then I read this:

Lets talk about your "Pewter" ... Now you bred a Jelly to a 2x het (White-sided and Peanut Butter) and got that snake (the Pewter)... there was NO AXANTHIC in the Origianl "mix"... but now the "Pewter" is an Axanthic-Jelly? Where'd the Axanthic come from (and remember i KNOW who bred the 2x hets!)

Putting all the name calling and other stuff aside, if these are facts, how can it be? I am not fully understanding what the "jelly" is capable of. And before anyone gets bent out of shape, I am just trying to learn more, and I am sure I am asking the right group of people for the answers. Thank you in advance.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 11:34 PM   #3
ZFelicien
Here's a visualization of Incomplete Dominance.



Lets say:

The White is Amel

The Red is PB

The Pink is Jelly
 
Old 12-22-2008, 11:36 PM   #4
Bill & Amy
Very good info!!!
 
Old 12-23-2008, 12:31 PM   #5
Lucas339
anyone know of a good site to see pics of all these?
 
Old 12-23-2008, 12:44 PM   #6
ssshane
photos

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...=123591&page=3


It started in another location, but was moved to here.
 
Old 12-23-2008, 12:56 PM   #7
Lucas339
thanks. those are really cool looking snakes!
 

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