Opening up a small time business.

I have two pennies to rub to my name, and I really want to start a small scale business selling mostly snakes, and lizards my credit is horrid so I doubt I'd be able to take out a loan and start way at the top, so here are my thoughts and perhaps ya'll can add to it.

1.) I am going to school, to finish up my high school diploma at 27 years old, then I want to go to college for Botany / Biology so please keep in mind that this is not going to be started tomorrow, or even a few months down the line.

Anyway here it goes, my thought is that, if I acquired some feeder species and started to raise those I could do so pretty inexpensively, say a few colonies of mice, rats, and roaches.

I could also buy some less expensive reptiles that I would love to work with as well, such as Indonesian Tree Boas, Amazon Tree Boas, and yes if I can find them, Diadem Rat Snakes to give everyone a feel for where my passions lie.

I would also really love to get into some gecko species, and while I'd love to add a few Tokay's to the collection I prefer my lizards to be terrestrial, oddly enough as I love my aboribrial snakes, perhaps due to the specialized evolution of them, as well as their temperaments (same, reason I don't like MOST ball pythons, just just sort of sit there, like they were fed far too much valumes.)

Please realize that my opinion on any species are that of my own, and with anything I do make exceptions, I am not a fan of ball pythons but their are a few morphs I would LOVE to own for instance, Super Pastel Sugar anyone?

This is not a thread filled with questions, but everything I have mentioned is to get as much information as I can get on how to go about setting something up....

If you are going to say "Due to financial situations you are going through, you might want to reconsider" Tell me why, throw out numbers that I would be looking at spending, throw out any and all information you can be it good or bad in a respectful manner and I will appreciate it and take it into much consideration....

Just out of curiosity, are you looking to open a brick and mortar retail store, online shop, something more local selling direct to customer, or breeding to sell wholesale?

1)Look into loans and grants that the future may hold
http://www.sba.gov/category/navigati...e/loans-grants

2) Begin to acquire, one at a time, strong healthy specimens of the types of critters you want to work with from reputable sellers.

3) Build a reputation. Make sure each transaction is the best it can be. You will make mistakes, and stuff will happen. Make a list before it happens of things you think might go wrong, and what your response will be, a courteous response that will be fair and satisfy a normal customer, and which will satisfy those who may learn of the transaction if you have the Customer from Hell…Try to have everything, transactions and responses, in writing. Keep emails and records. It is far easier to prepare a plan when you are not in the middle of a crisis.

4) After you have made the list, create a detailed and fair TOS and stick to it even if sometimes a transaction ends up costing you.

5) Volunteer. I'm sure you have a personal life and you will be going to school, but if there are local reptile organizations, volunteer your help to set up meetings, serve refreshments, give a talk here and there. There is no surer way to find friends and mentors than to be helpful and dependable.

6) Treat your mentors/friends well. Wherever you live, you can manage to host a get-together every three months or so. Make it a covered dish. During the get together, look for opportunities to help your friends.

You may just find that by the time you enter college, your reputation will have precede you and you might get a part time job working with a reptile store/breeder who you respect.

I plan on breeding reptiles that are not worked with enough, especially those that one cannot easily find as CBB's such as the diadem rat snakes, I also have a few odds and ends that I am absolutely fascinated by (Indo tree boas, some ground boas.) my heart lies with rear fanged snakes though... So I guess one could say that I'll be selling snakes, and snakes only if that answers your question.

(And unlike most higher end snake breeders, I'd prefer to work closely with a few species of snakes that I love, rather then a bit of everything.)

Originally Posted by Lucille

1)Look into loans and grants that the future may hold
http://www.sba.gov/category/navigati...e/loans-grants

2) Begin to acquire, one at a time, strong healthy specimens of the types of critters you want to work with from reputable sellers.

3) Build a reputation. Make sure each transaction is the best it can be. You will make mistakes, and stuff will happen. Make a list before it happens of things you think might go wrong, and what your response will be, a courteous response that will be fair and satisfy a normal customer, and which will satisfy those who may learn of the transaction if you have the Customer from Hell…Try to have everything, transactions and responses, in writing. Keep emails and records. It is far easier to prepare a plan when you are not in the middle of a crisis.

4) After you have made the list, create a detailed and fair TOS and stick to it even if sometimes a transaction ends up costing you.

5) Volunteer. I'm sure you have a personal life and you will be going to school, but if there are local reptile organizations, volunteer your help to set up meetings, serve refreshments, give a talk here and there. There is no surer way to find friends and mentors than to be helpful and dependable.

6) Treat your mentors/friends well. Wherever you live, you can manage to host a get-together every three months or so. Make it a covered dish. During the get together, look for opportunities to help your friends.

You may just find that by the time you enter college, your reputation will have precede you and you might get a part time job working with a reptile store/breeder who you respect.

Grants would be great, loans not so much as I feel there is far too much uncertainty especially as the hobby is going through a lot as we speak, where a breeding program now, could all be shut down tomorrow due to these stupid laws...

Would it be dumb for me to start off breeding feeders, mice, rats, African soft furred rats? I could place them in their own category and list many of the pro's and con's of each feeder, what prey item would be essential for what age / type of snake? and then once that is straightened out start acquiring a breeding pair that I wish to work with, then add more down the line?

Do you happen to have a WSHTF list? or know where I can find any so that I can have something to go off of, when writing my own, same with TOS.

The majority of my friends will always be invited to come over, drink a beer but many will probably decline this due to the way snakes are portrayed it's hard enough at times to have religious differences, (for them.)

I am pretty lucky in the sense that I am able to go to college online, as it's cheaper so will be able to spend a lot of time with the reptiles, feeders, and really get out there to promote my business when the time comes.

As I assume many of us will have surplus feeders, and if you are anything like me, some of them you will get attached to, should I start a secondary website selling the breeding stock off as pets and breeders as well, would that classify as the same business though it would totally count as a separate branch? or would I need another license?

Originally Posted by Gypsysoul876

Would it be dumb for me to start off breeding feeders, mice, rats, African soft furred rats?

I think that is a difficult question for others to answer. Whether you intend to breed for your own use or for commercial sales, you have to, as you would for any business plan, list your expenses (food, bedding, housing, and for commercial sales advertising, shipping, insurance) other factors (your time, where they will be kept and how people such as landlords, girlfriends, etc. might view this enterprise) and decide whether the expense and effort is going to further your ultimate goal or leave you exhausted and overworked.

Originally Posted by Gypsysoul876

Do you happen to have a WSHTF list? or know where I can find any so that I can have something to go off of, when writing my own, same with TOS.

There are several TOS threads on the site, maybe do a search. As far as WSHTF lists, a reading of the BOI will give you an idea of transactions that have gone wrong and how that happened, you can make a list from your readings and personalize it using your own situation.

It would appear as though there needs to be a lot of time and research before I even consider taking on what I thought would have been the easiest aspect to start off with, more so for me, until my body adjusts to these medications.

You also need to polish up your interpersonal skills. I checked out your introductory thread when a seller of dragons took the time to greet you and you replied that although you like his pictured dragon, you didn't like dragons in general because they were too common.
If someone extends the hand of friendship, don't make snarky comments about what they sell. Keep it to yourself.

Originally Posted by Gypsysoul876

I plan on breeding reptiles that are not worked with enough, especially those that one cannot easily find as CBB's such as the diadem rat snakes, I also have a few odds and ends that I am absolutely fascinated by (Indo tree boas, some ground boas.) my heart lies with rear fanged snakes though... So I guess one could say that I'll be selling snakes, and snakes only if that answers your question.

(And unlike most higher end snake breeders, I'd prefer to work closely with a few species of snakes that I love, rather then a bit of everything.)

The first thing you have to consider with your plan is why these species are not worked with. There is a reason ball pythons, crested geckos, leopard geckos, bearded dragons etc are bred in such huge numbers. Lots of people want them.

I don't know what the demand is for rear fanged snakes but I would have to guess it is rather limited. You may have success getting rid of the offspring from a pair or trio of a few different species but I don't think it would be enough to offset the costs (IMO)

Another thing you have to look at is the WC availability of the animals you are considering. If cheap WC animals are available that will cut into your sales potential as not everyone is willing to pay a premium for CBB animals. I only bring this up in reference to your especially those that one cannot easily find as CBB's comment. I can't speak to the WC availability of the ground boas, Indo tree boas and rear fangs you mentioned.

I'm not saying it cant be done and in some ways you may have an advantage over all the morph breeders. The morphs that make the most money when sold obviously cost the most for you to obtain as breeding stock. If the animals you want to work with are less expensive you can get started with less money. Of course the downside to this is your babies will sell for less money. Another advantage might be that if no one is working with them you won't have as much competition when trying to sell them. Of course you won't have as many people clamoring for your animals either.

You sound a lot like me. I'm not so much into the common stuff but a lot of the uncommon stuff is uncommon for a reason. Its not because people don't like them, its because enough people don't like them to make their commercial propagation a viable venture. Working with inexpensive animals that are widely available as WC will not make you any money as long as the WC are available. Finding a rarer species, like some of the Australian geckos, since you mentioned you like terrestrial geckos, will cost a bit more but they still seem to sell well, the problem is they don't produce a lot and they are becoming more common and the price is dropping.

As far as feeders, unless you are huge you won't make a ton of money at it if you consider the time and effort you put into it. Quality food is not cheap for a large colony. Bedding is not cheap if you plan on having a colony that won't have your neighbors calling the cops on you for odor control. Meaning of course that you have to clean often. Just these two things alone will take a decent chunk out of your profits and that does not even include your labor.

When I had my 20 mouse colonies and 50 or so breeder rat setup I used to like to think about how increasing my stock could make me even more money. I'd figure out how long it took me to clean each rack system and project that into how many systems I could clean in a day and in a week on a decent rotation. I'm young (stop laughing those of you who know me) and I still need a day job so I figured my job might as well be raising rats and mice. Then I figured out how much food and bedding I went through with my two racks and extrapolated that. Then I calculated how many babies I could produce and how many I could, theoretically, sell. Then I figured out how much work I would have to put into it. Not only the daily work but the weekend shows for selling and stuff like that and I figured out if I just walked the sides of the roads for 8 hours a day and collected aluminum cans I'd not only be better off financially I'd probably be healthier (except for all the exhaust fumes I'd be breathing in.) On top of that I see how much the rat and mouse market has dropped recently and it make the future look all that much more bleak. A lot of people go to the pet store and pay 1.50-2.00 per mouse and 5.00-6.00 per rat and think wow, If I raised a couple of hundred mice and a couple of hundred rats a week I'd be doing OK. The problem is you probably won't be selling yours for that price. I was selling most of my stock at retail, live and frozen, in my own store but even with my low production I was usually running a surplus so I would not be getting retail prices for any extras I produced. At shows, around here anyway, you would be lucky to get 75 cents per adult mouse and maybe 3 bucks for a large rat and most of your sales wouldn't be large rats.

After all my negativity as strange as it sounds I still wouldn't mind giving it go. If I could start out without putting myself deeply into debt and I thought there was decent chance of making a profit I would try it. Believe it or not cleaning rodent cages didn't bother me and I know there would be things I could do to make it easier (automatic watering system for example, I used bottles and they needed to be refilled every 36 hours minimum) It's just a huge commitment of time if you want to make a decent amount of money. It's not an 8 hour a day 5 day a week job.

If I had 300 to spend on breeding stock (future breeding stock) I know what I would get in a heartbeat. Viper geckos. They are easy to keep and breed and they breed at a young age so acquiring young stock wouldn't mean I was 2 or 3 years away from production. They wouldn't take up a lot of space. They were once fairly common so everyone knows about them but no one breeds them in huge numbers anymore. Babies still seem to sell well at a relatively high price. Lastly and most importantly, I love them. I would have them even if they didn't breed for me and that is very important to me. I don't want something that I only have because it makes me money.

If I had a little more money, say $1000.00 I'd go with Rankin's dragons for the exact same reasons as the viper geckos. It doesn't have to take a lot of extra money to get something going.

You have taken the first and possibly most important step. You are asking questions beforehand. There is nothing wrong with starting slow. You don't have to have a dozen breeding colonies from the get go. As others have suggested, choose a species you want to work with. I'd highly suggest something that means more than just a potential for profit to you. Spend what you can afford on good stock. This may even mean WC stock depending on the species but make sure you get it healthy (vets etc.) I would also suggest something that has a least a bit of a following as a lot of the really obscure stuff might be a tough sell simply because no one knows it exists. You want something that the demand will at least be equal to the supply (preferably higher but at least equal to.) It doesn't matter if you have 10 of the rarest baby snakes in the world if no one wants them you won't make money on them

A well thought out project or two and even a small business, if successfully implemented can make you some money, but my last piece of advice, if you are thinking about this as a way to make a living, you may want to reconsider. I am certainly not saying you can't as many people do but most of them are not doing it like you are planning on doing it. They are much larger scale. Unless you have a colony of Centralian blue tongue skinks (my ultimate goal) that you inherited from a dead uncle (not part of the goal as none of my uncles have them) you probably are not going to make decent money from a small scale project.

Notice I didn't even say "If you are thinking you will get rich" because I think most people have realized this is just not going to happen.

I don't want to discourage you though so after you have thought it all out and have decided to go for it I wish you the best of luck.

Originally Posted by Lucille

You also need to polish up your interpersonal skills. I checked out your introductory thread when a seller of dragons took the time to greet you and you replied that although you like his pictured dragon, you didn't like dragons in general because they were too common.
If someone extends the hand of friendship, don't make snarky comments about what they sell. Keep it to yourself.

Yes, I do mean well I just don't have the best way with words, to me it was more so meant, "You know, I really don't generally like bearded dragons due to how common they are, however for some odd reason I find yours to be absolutely exceptional, with his coloration, and that orange beard,"

Though I can see where and how I had came across as a dick, now that it's been pointed out to me.