Raleigh, NC Show 2/3 Sep 2006

You also have to take into account the long term effects of these types of shows. The Raleigh show has, over the years, attracted a lot of people to the hobby. The scores of people coming to the show for the "fluff" mean more people buying in the future. Plus, you do get a lot of people that are first exposed to the hobby at the shows, who wouldn't have come in the first place except for the attractions.

Certainly, more people come to "look" when there's non-vendor attractions. It makes the buyer:attendee ratio drop. However, it does result in an overall increase in buyers, especially over time. I've seen the market grow in Raleigh over the years.

I know Alex is open to suggestions. I was his initial goal to drop the petting zoo and other fluffs. He wanted a basic reptile show. It works both ways. If the vendors arent't here, the show dies. however, if the promoter ditches the attractions, and th epublic wanted attractions, then the show might not be there for the vendors. At least not in some markets.

Originally Posted by eric adrignola

You also have to take into account the long term effects of these types of shows. The Raleigh show has, over the years, attracted a lot of people to the hobby. The scores of people coming to the show for the "fluff" mean more people buying in the future. Plus, you do get a lot of people that are first exposed to the hobby at the shows, who wouldn't have come in the first place except for the attractions.

Certainly, more people come to "look" when there's non-vendor attractions. It makes the buyer:attendee ratio drop. However, it does result in an overall increase in buyers, especially over time. I've seen the market grow in Raleigh over the years.

I know Alex is open to suggestions. I was his initial goal to drop the petting zoo and other fluffs. He wanted a basic reptile show. It works both ways. If the vendors arent't here, the show dies. however, if the promoter ditches the attractions, and th epublic wanted attractions, then the show might not be there for the vendors. At least not in some markets.

I did this show last and this year , and there was a DECREASE in my sales.
I also talked to several vendors that said their sale at this event have dropped over the past few years as well.
So maybe its not working the way you think it is.
There was more reason for the show to better this season than last;

No threat of a major hurricane
Gas prices have been their lowest in over a year
And their was plenty of time to set the show up.
(last year Alex only had 2 months to set it up)
And it was held in a much nicer building.

I did Tony's shows for years (twice a year) and the "fluff" didn't help there.

A reptile show should be just that ....a REPTILE show. No camels/pony's/birds etc...

I have had tables at shows w/o all that "fluff" and there was still a decent crowd and we did well.

I guess it just comes down to how much some vender's will tolerate to make money. I for one would like to see some change in the quality of the shows.

Overall I wasn't impressed with this weekend's show. A little too much wild caught for my taste, too many cornsnakes and such. All fairly run of the mill.
I've never liked the whole petting zoo thing and the clown roaming around just got on my nerves.

I spent a grand total of $22, but I didn't expect to find any reptiles I wanted there. I went mainly to deliver some snakes to a friend and have a fun day out with my son.
A lot of old friends I usually enjoy catching up with were absent as well.

I used to vend at Raleigh, but I haven't gotten a table there since 1998 or so. I don't think I even made it to the last 3 shows anyway. The whole thing has declined in quality over the years.
Maybe my interests have just gotten more specific in recent years but during the 90s I never came home from that show without at least a couple of snakes or some geckos. Now I can't remember the last of those shows I went to when I actually bought a reptile.

I bame the promoting method in part, but also blame the vendors to a point as well. Shows are getting boring since they've been taken over by dealers, and people who either specialize in cornsnakes, leopard geckos, or ball pythons. I could count the asian elaphe I saw on one hand. Maybe I've just become jaded and it takes more to interest me now, but I like to see something a little different.
I remember buying my first taiwan and blue beauties in Raleigh not long after they became regularly available to the hobby. I picked up a great pair of Paroedura masobe one year. Many types of day geckos could always be found. Now it's 75% the same 3 species, and of the remainder there's very little truly interesting.

Originally Posted by homegrownherps

Nothing is wrong w/ the promoter making money, hell thats the same reason I buy tables at a show...to make money.
But if the promoter ( I'm not singling out any particular promoter here either ) gets people thru the door they should be people that are going to spend money on reptiles or reptiles related products. Because if those aren't the people coming thru the doors then the vendors become a side show.

It's always been an exotic animal show. Always been avertisted as an exotic animal show. Its never been a hardcore herp show.NEVER!

It's pretty bad to hear so much critisism in one place! Yes, the show has alot of the "run of the mill" and wild caught reptiles, but what is anyone doing to make it better? Nothing, thats what. I also agree that there is way too much fluff, but you cant just change a show that has been going on for 10 years overnight. How many people have contacted Alex with their concerns? I know he would be interested in hearing them. Bring all of your healthy and CBB exotic reptiles and you just won't have much competition, will you? I don't want to sound like I dissagree with most of what you are all saying, I would just like to see some action instead of gripping.

The problem is, there's little incentive to do anything about it. For me anyway.
I no longer do any shows. It's not just Raleigh, they're all basically the same now, a least the ones in the southeast. I sell everything I produce every year anyway, assuming I get around to advertising it, and I don't have the aggravation of loading it all up and hauling it back and forth to a show.
Considering the overhead just to do the show now, one table is $140, factor in gas, food, and lodging, it's expensive. The last show I did in Raleigh the table was $100 I believe. When all was said and done I barely covered the costs of going.
10,000 people through the door is meaningless from a vendors perspective when only 5% are buyers.

It's a catch-22 I guess. Without actual buyers, the vendors don't turn out, without decent vendors, the buyers stay at home and the only attendees are the lookers just killing a Saturday afternoon.

Originally Posted by joshdhensley

It's pretty bad to hear so much critisism in one place! Yes, the show has alot of the "run of the mill" and wild caught reptiles, but what is anyone doing to make it better? Nothing, thats what. I also agree that there is way too much fluff, but you cant just change a show that has been going on for 10 years overnight. How many people have contacted Alex with their concerns? I know he would be interested in hearing them. Bring all of your healthy and CBB exotic reptiles and you just won't have much competition, will you? I don't want to sound like I dissagree with most of what you are all saying, I would just like to see some action instead of gripping.

What "action" would you reccomend ?
The promoters are very well aware of the concerns the vender's are having.
Some of the promoters are trying to make it better , but some just tell you what you want to hear, and just don't give a crap about anything but thier pockets.

It would be very easy to change certain aspects of a show, how hard is it NOT to book the camel rides and petting zoo?

They book that crap because they can't book reptile vender's any more,
So they just fill the building w/ what ever they can.

As far as the "gripping"...trust me, I vent my issues to the promoters right there at the shows. I am tired of hearing their working on it. I have been hearing that for years.

The only way the promoters are going to make changes, is for the vendors to stop buying tables until the changes are in place.

Originally Posted by ChadOsborne

It's always been an exotic animal show. Always been avertisted as an exotic animal show. Its never been a hardcore herp show.NEVER!

Aren't ALL the reptile shows allowing the sales "other exotics" now adays?
Even if its not advertised as such.
w/ the exception of the over rated and over priced Daytona Expo.

Where's a "Hardcore Herp Show" ?

Its Always had camels ect...That's the show I've been to since May 04. I think the herp comunity in that area has changed alot. There were as many people out side at the flea market as I've ever seen there. I just think show have changed alot in the last few years. People that really want an animal will buy it online and have it shipped when in yaers past they would wait for a show. Its always been a strange show, Hit or miss. One show I'd sell out b4 luch sat. The next show Sun afternoon would be a hot sales day. Then some shows never really seemed to get any momeniutm going.

I went this time to find pictus. Not a pictus at the show. I did however buy 0.4 adult crested gex for $25. They were market as croc gex. As far as phelsuma/day gex I saw 6 dif kinds.

I saw all the wc stuff as well as no shortage of Ball morphs and boa morphs.

Originally Posted by ChadOsborne

Its Always had camels ect...That's the show I've been to since May 04. I think the herp comunity in that area has changed alot. There were as many people out side at the flea market as I've ever seen there. I just think show have changed alot in the last few years. People that really want an animal will buy it online and have it shipped when in yaers past they would wait for a show. Its always been a strange show, Hit or miss. One show I'd sell out b4 luch sat. The next show Sun afternoon would be a hot sales day. Then some shows never really seemed to get any momeniutm going.

I went this time to find pictus. Not a pictus at the show. I did however buy 0.4 adult crested gex for $25. They were market as croc gex. As far as phelsuma/day gex I saw 6 dif kinds.

I saw all the wc stuff as well as no shortage of Ball morphs and boa morphs.

Its bad enough that they even have the camels and pony's and all the other non reptile stuff, but to have all in the same building in the back of the room w/ the the reptiles seems to be pure greed.

As I mentioned in an earlier post that no one seemed to comment on....It really sucks when loose birds fly over your CB reptiles and crap on your stuff !

Your right about one thing...the shows have definitely changed over the past few years, and not in favor of the vender's.
The promoters may throw you a bone here and there but mangage to get it back somewhere else.