Flipping babies

A lot has been written lately on this site on the subject of flipping/reselling animals. Many people buy critters and later resell them, and some buy critters in order to resell them. A major concern when this is done is the health of the critter in question, unfortunately sometimes this is not a concern for the flipper.

There are special concerns when dealing with very young critters which may not do well when sold and resold. A good breeder may see that babies which he has cared for carefully may suffer and even die in an environment where they are housed or fed inadequately because the flipper just wants to unload the animal and make his profit.

Not all resellers are this way, of course. Some buy, quarantine, offer good care and housing, and when the animal is later sold it is in good health.

Checking the BOI may not only be a good business practice, it may be a good stewardship practice of the babies you sell. If you come across a BOI name where there are reports of sick or dying animals or inadequate care, consider just not selling to that person.

A foregone sale may mean a short term loss of money, but a foregone sale because of your concerns for any critter but especially for fragile babies will establish you as an ethical seller who cares for the critters he deals with.

You know, people should have to define "Flipper".

Why is it that if you're reselling animals, you're bad, because you're not taking care of the animals and not feeding them correctly? Shouldn't it be that you're bad for not caring properly for ANY animal in your care? Shouldn't it be that you're bad for selling sick animals?

Regardless of if you are reselling the animals or not. If you don't care properly for them while you have them, you're BAD.

Regardless of if you bred the animal yourself or just bought it, if you SELL a sick animals, you're BAD.

So what's with the whole "flipping" thing? If you resell a healthy stable animal, it shouldn't matter. This means that anyone selling an animal should have it long enough to health check it, yes. Anyone buying and selling an animal should also be certain not to stress it, which means no back-to-back shipping, but instead making certain it has time to recover from the shipping.

How long do you have to own something before you're allowed to sell it? What about buying a group, when you know there's a couple you don't want, but you know you can sell those two to people who DO want them? What if you breed but you despise dealing with the general public or prefer to spend your free time dealing with your critters? You can't sell to a middleman?

As long as someone takes proper care of the animals and is selling healthy animals I don't consider them to be bad.

I know, someone will pop up saying "OH but a TON of flippers don't feed the animals right, and they don't keep them properly!!" That's true of ANYONE including breeders and the general public! You should judge on the care and quality of the animals, not on whether they are selling.

It's always great to suport a breeder who is selling their own animals. Obviously you can talk to them about the parentage, etc and you're giving money to a person who(suppposely) loves the species and enjoys keeping it.

Some of my best animals have come from(some fairly high name) sellers who DO buy and sell animals. I have never seen an unhealthy animal on their tables, sites or anywhere associated with them for sale. They care about the animals and can tell me all about how it's feeding.

I say, check up on both the business practices, and the husbandry of the person. You should do that for ANYONE, including breeders who only sell their own stock.

Originally Posted by Wolfy-hound

As long as someone takes proper care of the animals and is selling healthy animals I don't consider them to be bad.

Originally Posted by lucille

Not all resellers are this way, of course. Some buy, quarantine, offer good care and housing, and when the animal is later sold it is in good health.

We are on the same page. But I think special care should be taken with babies, as you addressed in your 'no back to back shipping' comment.

I agree with both of you (well...considering you both said just about the same thing). In this business, if you plan to get anywhere and to be a good person, the animals always come first. Someday I hope to be a well known and respected breeder. Do I want to make money? Well, duh! Will I ever risk my animals' health to do so? HELL no! I didn't get into breeding for some quick money, I did it because of my passion (obsession...) with animals.

I used to live at an apt complex where a few police men and women would come feed the cats. One of them said to me one day 'There are 2 truly innocent creatures in the world, young children and animals.' And he was right. I'm not a big people person. The world is full of disgusting barbaric people. It's sickening. That's why I have such a passion for my animals.

To sum it up, the animals should ALWAYS come first.

Absolutely!

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with buying healthy animals from quality animals with the intent to resell. As long as the animals are thriving, in good condition and well cared for of course.

Back to back shipping isn't ideal and it's a good idea to let an animal rest and recover before going to a new home. And as Katie said, you can't be a respected breeder/seller if you don't put the animals' needs first.

I make it a point to treat each animal that passes through my doors as a cherished pet. Lord knows I just spent a small fortune on a dragon that arrived less than 100%. He went right to the vet for a checkup. But that's what you have to do if you want to do it right!

Profit margins must be considered, but the well being of the animals should come first. In my mind, a flipper is someone who buys whatever they can get wherever they can get it cheap. They know little of husbandry or choose to disregard the animal's needs and they sell the poor creature to the first person to offer them money. There is no love for the animal, only a love for money.

When I hear the term "flipper" i think of people that buy or "adopt" animals for low prices, often from people that assume the animal is going to a good home, and then sell it for a profit. the animals may end up going to a great home in the end, but i just think its wrong if a person buys an animal that they could have gotten for free or at a reduced price, and actually wants to give the animal a good home, but ended up paying a much higher price for it because some person that doesn't actually care about the animal wanted to make a profit.

if you want to buy animals at wholesale prices, there are people that specifically sell their animals at those prices for just that. i see no problem with buying animals at wholesale prices and reselling them, as long as you're not buying them under false pretenses. if you're willing to pull one over on the people you're buying from to make a little money, you're most likely willing to do the same thing to your customers.

and if you're buying with the intent to resell, or selling any animals in general, its your responsibility to make sure the animals are healthy. if someone sold me an animal that turned out sick or unhealthy, and they then told me that they didn't know it was sick because they had bought it from someone else, the person that sold it to me is still 100% at fault. you should be properly quarantining any animals in your care whether they're going to be sold, bred, part of your collection, given away, etc.

There is no difference between a so called "flipper" and retail outlets that sell reptiles. They are one in the same. The difference is not in how the animal is obtained but how the animal is cared for while in the would be sellers possession. If the animal is afforded proper husbandry and is verified to be feeding and healthy then I personally have no problems with those who choose to flip them. I agree though that the BOI is a good tool. Talking to others in the community at herp events will also give you pretty good insight as to who is doing what and who to avoid.

This is something I never got and I think was started by people that just wanted to complain about something because maybe a person that bought and resold out sold them or something.

I see nothing wrong with buying and reselling. There is a hobby side and a business side. Some call this a reptile industry. Some say hobby.

It does not matter if a person buys and resells. I know breeders that don't take care of their animals. I know resellers that take bad care of their animals. I see some say that flippers ruin the market then turn around and say it is not about the money. But then why worry about the market? I see them go off on anyone that buys and resells because they want to be put on a hire rank cause they breed all their animals. I see some put down a reseller because the reseller makes money at what they do.

Without people selling animals there would not be a hobby. This HOBBY/INDUSTRY was started by people buying WC animals and selling them as fast as they could because some species was known to die fast. This INDUSTRY/HOBBY was BUILT on the flip!!!

I think some people need something to complain about. I think some just are not happy with themselves so they have to go off on people. I know a lot of people who resell that are great people. I know a lot of great breeders. OH YEAH. Many of them great breeders buy and resell too!!!!! YEPPERS. You just don't know about it.

It is not just people who buy to resell that take bad care of animals. Their are breeders and just people who buy that take crap care of their animals. They should be just judged on the quality of health of their animals. BOTTOM LINE.

I mean when a person starts saying you flip animals you ruin the market and crash the market. I do not do this for the money. You are a flipper you priced that to high you are in it just for the money. You are a flipper you priced that to low you are hoping to sell a lot of them just for the money. I do not do it for the money though. That makes you the flipper by flip flopping back and forth to make the argument go your way.

There is not one thing wrong with buying animals at wholesale to resell them. There is nothing wrong with selling animals you did not produce.

There is something wrong when you do not care for the animals. That is the bottom line and you do not have to be a "FLIPPER" to take bad care of animals. This flipper thing was started by a bunch of people that are jealous. BUT THEY ARE NOT IN IT FOR THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!! But they sure worry about the money end of the hobby/industry

IM OUT

PS that is not a rumor wither LMAO

Oh and yeah I have bought and resold. I stood behind every animal I sold. I never once went back to the breeder either when a het did not prove out. I TOOK CARE OF IT. I hate seeing everyone that buys and resells clumped together. The hard core people that back this flipper thing think if you produce it you are a god and if you flip animals you suck. Guess what. There are People out there that buy and resell that have forgotten more about this hobby then some BREEDERS know.

When will it be that we all the good people stand together and stop with this petty BS that breaks us all apart. I mean really. we should stand against the people that abuse animals!!! YES WE SHOULD. But the whole flipper, breeder, I am better then you cause of this and you crash the market you are charging to much for this.... LET IT FRICKEN GO! Really there is other thing that need to be fixed in this hobby/industry.......Shoot... Whats next if you do not breed ball pythons or bearded dragons you will suck? Really?

I think the "low side" of the definition of a "flipper" will likely be those people who get in a shipment of animals, whether from a wholesaler, importer, or breeder, Friday night in order to take to a show on Saturday morning. They will unpack the animals, put them on display with a price tag, and then lie their asses off about how well they have been doing for them.

Not sure how much that takes place currently, but I know years ago this was a VERY common practice. I've been to shows where vendors were trying like hell to sell some animals before they rolled over right there on them and they had to take that loss on the chin. MUCH better to sleaze it off on some poor sucker, usually a kid spending his allowance on what looks like a cheap bargain to their untrained eye.

Heck, I had other vendors buy snakes from ME during setup and then put them out on their own table. I was selling problem feeders for a while, CLEARLY MARKED as such for $10 a pop, and those other vendors would put them on their tables at $25 and claim they were doing well for them. Heck, at one show I had a guy bring one of my own animals to my tables to try to sell it to me at the end of the show. He said it had had a couple of meals already.

THAT is the kind of "flipping" crap that gives this industry an unsavory feeling about it to some people.