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Old 07-15-2006, 01:12 AM   #11
hhmoore
Quote:
Originally Posted by ms_terese
Nah, I'm still not on that page.

I suppose if you're considering that the human would take no action in the event of a strike, or would be completely incapacitated due to some other situation (i.e., no free hands/feet/teeth), then I suppose it's possible, but... I really just don't see it is as a reasonable scenario.?
Terese, I must point out that "conventional" constriction - whereby the snake kills the prey by compressing the chest wall so the lungs cannot fill - is not the only means. It takes significantly less effort to compress the carotid arteries and decrease/stop blood flow to the brain. Compression of the trachea is also possible (to a degree, even without significant damage to the cartilagenous rings). Now, imagine the keeper that has a large snake around his/her neck. The snake begins to tighten for whatever reason, perhaps trapping one of the keepers hands in the process. You really don't see this as a recipe for disaster (read: death)? Free feet are of little use if you are in a closed room...unless you are suggesting that one might be able to disentangle themselves from a constricting boid with their feet??? And teeth?? Are you really suggesting that one could chew their way free if a large constrictor was wrapped around their neck - in reality, the person would probable not even be able to sink his teeth in the animal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ms_terese
I'm just saying that I've never seen a 10 ft. boa that I felt was capable of killing a human.
And I have never seen a 10 ft boa that I felt was not capable. Thankfully, we can have differing opinions, even express and discuss them. Have a great weekend!! (its gonna be busy at work, and I have a ton of things to do at home, so I might not be around to play much)
 
Old 07-15-2006, 02:00 AM   #12
hhmoore
Please don't take any of my above posts to indicate that I have lived in fear of my captives, lol. That is certainly NOT the case. As previously mentioned, I rarely focus on that aspect of things. Do I think it is likely that a 9 ft boa is going to kill its keeper (or any other adult, for that matter) - no. I just admit to the possibility that it could happen under the right circumstances. It may just be related to my experiences...I have had my arm constricted by a 5 ft Afrock, with the result of my hand turning purple and opening against my will (we were holding onto each other at the time). That was a first for me...was my life in danger - absolutely not. Did it clue me in to the snake's strength and potential? Most definitely. I have also had a 10 ft Afrock that threw a coil around my neck, and another around my "free hand" as I reached up (my other hand had grabbed her to prevent the impending strike, and in the ensuing struggle was dragged closer to my face). I couldn't open the door, but I did kick it pretty hard with my free feet, lol. My then girlfriend simply turned up the television because I was making so much noise, lol. I'll admit there was a frightened moment...and I will say that if I had panicked, or had not had the experience I did at that time, I might not be typing this now. Of course, one could easily argue that my story just proves your point, that a snake of that size simply isn't capable of killing an adult person. Having been in that position, I strongly feel that the potential is there.
Admittedly, both of those experiences were with pi$$ed off, imported Afrocks...but I am not willing to make some leap of faith that says a comparably sized boa couldn't do similar. The drive to do so may not be there, as a rule...but what if it was on any given day?
 
Old 07-15-2006, 02:08 AM   #13
ms_terese
Quote:
Please don't take any of my above posts to indicate that I have lived in fear of my captives, lol.
I didn't take it that way at all.

You're probably correct....under the absolute right circumstances (or would those be the wrong circumstances), it could happen...but I'm going to keep it in the same category of likelihood of my dog killing me, my propane grill blowing me to high heaven, or slipping on a wet bathroom floor and ramming the faucet through my head.... That is, with some basic common sense, I have a much greater chance of being struck by lightning~!
 
Old 07-15-2006, 03:33 AM   #14
markface
i think that the possability of an 8 or 9 ft boa being able to kill someone is very real . it may not be likely , but its still very real . i think the one thing that some are over looking is that most of the people posting on this thread are experienced keepers who know how to deal with a situation like this . where i see the possibility of death being a real outcome from a large boa is in the hands of an inexperienced person . i work in a very large petshop in the reptile department and i see every day someone will come in wanting a "big snake" even though they have never owned a snake or even done any research on them . where i work we (thankfully) are allowed to not sell an animal to someone who we feel is not qualified to handle it . there are alot of other places that dont worry about things like experience and just look at the bottom line . now look at that same 9 or 10 ft boa in the hands of someone who doesnt know how strong and fast they can be . say that boa strikes and coils someone who hasnt a clue and they panick and freeze up or just plain flail about uselessly . or they are wearing the boa around their neck to show off or just cause it makes them feel cool . they have already given the boa a headstart . it doesnt take very long at all to be choked unconsious with the right pressure on the neck . once unconsious its just a few more heartbeats till death .
just my 2 cents worth .
 
Old 07-15-2006, 06:18 AM   #15
OrganicBoas
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmurphy
I have some pretty large boas 9ft+/- and I don't believe they could constrict a small child let alone an adult.

This phrase suprised me slightly. I've even fealt somewhat uncomfortable when Freddy (3ft) is getting a wrap and a half around my neck. Of course, a halfway able adult would more than likely be able to fend off a large boa...But the small child bit...I'm not so sure about. Is it likely a boa would attack a small child? I doubt it, but I think a large boa would be more than able to take out a child.


- Damian
 
Old 07-15-2006, 08:20 AM   #16
kmurphy
Damian, I guess I'll have to retract that a bit. When I wrote that I was thinking more of the more normal type of constriction, where the snake is on the floor or chair, strikes then constricts. It wasn't well thought out and I wouldn't leave a child alone with my snakes. However, I've never heard of an instance where a boa has killed anyone.
After reading these posts I agree that it is best to be cautious. As far as a snake around the neck, this can happen with any constrictor. Carl Kaulfeld wrote about an incident with a rat (or pine) snake. I've just never considered a boa a threat to human life in the least, so I was surprised by the statement in the beginning of the care sheet.
 
Old 07-15-2006, 12:22 PM   #17
scalesnstuff
I honestly think that it was in good intention

If the impulse buyer were to read it and see that statement then either they are not going to buy the animal or they will do more research into the particular species they were interested in. What harm does that do.

We have to look at the facts. How many pet stores lie or do not tell their customers of the dangers of the large snakes? How many burms are there in the Everglades right now that were released because they got bigger than the customer knew about. In Glynn County were I live, there has been at least 3 red tails released into the wild for whatever reason and who knows how many burms. Alot of these larger snakes grow fast and get expensive really quick.

Georgia in all its brilliance is trying to pass a law now similar to Florida. Only problem is our ban will include all species of Pythons and Boas. To own one you have to buy a permit that will cost you $300 a year.

I am glad that is leading into a care sheet. I honestly think it will keep the impulse buyer away and leave the larger snakes to people who are responsible enough to get the facts before getting the animal. We have to remember that for every honest animal dealer (one who put all the facts out before selling an animal) there is probably two that does not.
 
Old 07-15-2006, 01:32 PM   #18
ms_terese
Quote:
I am glad that is leading into a care sheet. I honestly think it will keep the impulse buyer away and leave the larger snakes to people who are responsible enough to get the facts before getting the animal. We have to remember that for every honest animal dealer (one who put all the facts out before selling an animal) there is probably two that does not.
I disagree. The impulse buyer isn't checking caresheets before purchase anyway. I think it adds to the "fear factor" when it doesn't identify how extremely unlikely it would be for a boa constrictor to kill a human.

I'm still looking for a documented event.
 
Old 07-15-2006, 04:53 PM   #19
Kaa needs a wife
I have never seen of a boa incident in killing someone. However I did see a special on snakes/Snakebites from Nat geographic that had A man who was killed by I think a Burm. that was about the size of an adult Boa. However in this story the keeper was wearing the snake around his neck and there was no one nearby. It did say he had had the snake for a number of years and it had never been prone to attack. The animal was killed in the process of trying to remove it from it's keeper. This is the only documented type of case I could come by.
 
Old 07-15-2006, 05:17 PM   #20
OrganicBoas
Right on Kmurphy. But I still believe that it's possible for a boa to strike and constrict a child. Highly improbable for sure. But if a small snake thinks my hand is a meal (which has happened more than a couple times), then a large one might think a child is a meal given the right set of circumstances. Hungry snake/somebody preparing chicken, snake tastes it in and the air and sees toddler walking or crawling around. I know, I know... this is not a very likely scenerio, but given what we know of feeding response in boas...possible?

That being said. I still think you're right about how strong they put that opener. Whether it's good for the hobby or not, it's still misinformation. But ads some scary importance (albeit not true) to that care sheet...laughing

- Damian
 

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