Lowballing: Busting the Bubble

I'm sick and tired of hearing about how lowballing someone with an overpriced animal is a sin or unethical. I find great enjoyment in what has happend in several markets:

1. Limburgh-strain albino Rosys
2. Ball Python morphs

I take great pride in dumping Saharan Sand Boas and Calabar Burrowing pythons on the market. Just today, I saw someone selling Saharans for $20, down from the $100 I paid last year. Anyone who wants one can obtain them at a reasonable price.

Back to the point on lowballing. I can see why various big-mouths have a problem when someone undercuts their outrageous prices. The market determines pricing. If you think that your albino Ball is worth $750 and someone offers you $500, don't sell it. Let them buy it from you next year at $250.

I wonder how many of these people are now sitting on GTPs or Basin ETBs, two of the next markets to crack. God help the person who suggests that a CB neonate GTP should sell at a price closer to that of a FB neonate costing 1/2 the price. Don't get me started on locality Rosys.

Indigos are another problem. Lately, I have happily watched prices drop to $700-$800 for an adult male. Hopefully, $500 will soon be the norm, on the way down to $250.

What these big-mouths have tried to create is an atmosphere where bargaining is perceived as an insult. I encourage all viewers to negotiate a hard deal. If someone is insulted by your offer, move on or contact me. I'm watching various sites and its amazing how much competition is out there.

Together, we can make some of the more desireable animals available to all. Let these big-mouths sit with their animals for a while.

Let the discussion begin.

Mitch

I'm curious why you think the basin ETBs market is going to fall. Think about it, for the first time in many years they are not allowing smuggled animals into the country, just CBB animals can be offered from now on. So, the demand is up, and there is no WC animals to supply the demand, leaving only captive breeding to supply the market.

Justyn,

Its all about barriers to entry. While ETBs require more work then others, virtually anyone can buy an adult pair and begin production in their garage. At current prices, they're being touted as investments like mutual funds. Its becoming a marketing pitch, "How to turn $4,000 into $100,000?" Ask yourself, who is sitting on large commercial breeding colonies? How many do you believe are already here? Why is that market any different than any other?

Mitch

Michael, while I agree with you in theory (I've always been outspoken about people having the audacity to complain about my prices being too low), you need to learn to take the high road. I understand the frustration but referring to some of the larger breeders as loud mouths etc is NOT going to help your sales. If you are this frustrated with them then simply keep what you are doing. Sell your animals at what you believe are fair prices and move on. Let your reputation speak for itself but try not to make verbal enemies along the way. You're better off that way.

Griz

Lower prices are good, but it can also have negative effects. I would hate to see the business stagnate if the profitability dropped too much but on the other hand there are some near monopolies that I feel take advantage of the fact and adjust pricing accordingly.

Unfortunately some people view animal care and concern based on pricing. The higher cost gets the better care. I have heard the term 'throw away' snakes several times and would not like it to apply to any animals let alone some more threatened species if the cost drops to the point where things like Indigos are treated like a corn snake.

On the other hand lower cost may bring responsible people and more keepers seeking to propagate some species. All my snakes are pets too, I don't keep anything I don't like and enjoy. I also see where some will bring me more $$ then others and I balance this out by keeping some species that aren't worth much $$ at all but are threatened and I feel the need to help with their CB numbers.

I think prices should decrease as availability is increased especially for non morph species. Apples and oranges to me. If you want something fancy or designer then the price comes with it. If everything drops too much, there isn't anything to talk about at the water cooler. lol.

Originally Posted by Behmfamily

I'm sick and tired of hearing about how lowballing someone with an overpriced animal is a sin or unethical. I find great enjoyment in what has happend in several markets:

1. Limburgh-strain albino Rosys
2. Ball Python morphs

I take great pride in dumping Saharan Sand Boas and Calabar Burrowing pythons on the market. Just today, I saw someone selling Saharans for $20, down from the $100 I paid last year. Anyone who wants one can obtain them at a reasonable price.

Back to the point on lowballing. I can see why various big-mouths have a problem when someone undercuts their outrageous prices. The market determines pricing. If you think that your albino Ball is worth $750 and someone offers you $500, don't sell it. Let them buy it from you next year at $250.

I wonder how many of these people are now sitting on GTPs or Basin ETBs, two of the next markets to crack. God help the person who suggests that a CB neonate GTP should sell at a price closer to that of a FB neonate costing 1/2 the price. Don't get me started on locality Rosys.

Indigos are another problem. Lately, I have happily watched prices drop to $700-$800 for an adult male. Hopefully, $500 will soon be the norm, on the way down to $250.

What these big-mouths have tried to create is an atmosphere where bargaining is perceived as an insult. I encourage all viewers to negotiate a hard deal. If someone is insulted by your offer, move on or contact me. I'm watching various sites and its amazing how much competition is out there.

Together, we can make some of the more desireable animals available to all. Let these big-mouths sit with their animals for a while.

Let the discussion begin.

Mitch

You couldn't come off as more of a tool if you tried. You've shown yourself to be an idiot in the past and its no surprise you post this garbage.

The big-mouths that I was referring to are not necessarily the larger breeders, but people like Jamie above. They are the smallest operators trying to avoid being the last man standing in a Ponzi scheme. Look at whats happening in the used caging market. Supply is growing considerably.

Breeders are entitled to make a profit. Quality should command a higher price. Just don't tell me that negotiation is an insult. Anyone wanting to pay $3500 for a CH Bushmaster Boelen's, go right ahead. Just don't be suprised if they then put a larger quantity on the market and prices plummet.

I think that the only way to make some species affordable, is through a breeding collective.

Mitch

Originally Posted by Behmfamily

The big-mouths that I was referring to are not necessarily the larger breeders, but people like Jamie above. They are the smallest operators trying to avoid being the last man standing in a Ponzi scheme. Look at whats happening in the used caging market. Supply is growing considerably.

Breeders are entitled to make a profit. Quality should command a higher price. Just don't tell me that negotiation is an insult. Anyone wanting to pay $3500 for a CH Bushmaster Boelen's, go right ahead. Just don't be suprised if they then put a larger quantity on the market and prices plummet.

I think that the only way to make some species affordable, is through a breeding collective.

Mitch

Nobody ever said negotiation was an insult, did they? I believe in supporting the market and the future of my customers. I don't care whether they are buying a $75 snake or a $7500 snake. Also, I happen to believe that not EVERYTHING needs to be affordable to EVERYONE. Some things are rare and special. I can't afford a Ferrari but I don't hold it against Ferrari for not selling them for $50,000 and I don't make it my life's work to try to tank their business. I still think you're a tool and its been proven time and time again, everytime you open your mouth.

Originally Posted by jglass38

Nobody ever said negotiation was an insult, did they? I believe in supporting the market and the future of my customers. I don't care whether they are buying a $75 snake or a $7500 snake. Also, I happen to believe that not EVERYTHING needs to be affordable to EVERYONE. Some things are rare and special. I can't afford a Ferrari but I don't hold it against Ferrari for not selling them for $50,000 and I don't make it my life's work to try to tank their business. I still think you're a tool and its been proven time and time again, everytime you open your mouth.

There's a flaw in your argument there Jamie. You probably cannot build a Ferrari for $50,000, so selling at that price would put them out of business. With reptiles that can reproduce easiliy and in numbers in captivity (like Ball Python morphs), one can make them fairly cheaply once the initial "investment" is made. I don't like Mitch much either but he's right. There are many people who have a vested interest in keeping prices high. We've had this discussion before and we disagreed then too. The market on morphs and non-morphs will continue to soften as supplies increase, unless more buyers appear. In markets where supplies decrease prices will increase. So if imports of Ball Pythons stopped normals would go up in price. That is a basic law of macroeconomics.

It's one thing to have the market price go down as other people begin to breed that same morph. It's quite another to have someone offer you $250 for your $4000 Piedball ball python, then tell you and everyone else around that you are a jerkwad because you refuse to sell it to them. "I saw one at the show the other week for $250" well that's fine. You should have bought it then.
I price my snakes according to what they are worth to me(unless a emergency forces a quick sale) and if they don't sell, I might drop the price.
If someone took a chance on a new morph and they are the only ones with it, they SHOULD get the highest price possible. They are the ones that took the chance that the first one would be genetic. If no one wants that new morph(say it's REALLY ugly maybe?) then the price won't get paid.
But to go around delibritely undercutting others, or to insult other sellers who ask a decent(or even high) price for THEIR snakes goes against the entire idea of free enterprise to me.
If I don't want to pay $xx for that albino BP, then I'll wait, or I'll find one elsewhere. I Won't email the person and harague them over the price, offer half of the price as a insulting offer, or go buy several albinos and advertise right next to them that mine are half the price of theirs. It's none of my business what that person is charging.
Likewise, if you'd like to buy pieds, breed them and sell them at $100 each, then you have every right to. I'd prefer you didn't, but that's your business.
And most of the high end cars really don't even cost THAT much to build. But your are paying for the prestige of having THAT brand. Same as tennis shoes, or purses. Some people will ALWAYS pay more for a big name on what they are buying.
Wolfy