2 lizards, substrate help!?!

So I have my Leopard Gecko and Blue Tongue Skink each in largely sliced wood shavings at the moment. They both seem to like it just fine, the skink can very easily just go under it if he wants to burrow, especially in the little hide I have filled with shavings just for burrowing in. The leopard gecko also likes to push and move the substrate where he wants it.

I was wondering if Cypress Mulch would be better liked by them though? I'll be getting some anyway for my Tegu I reserved anyway, and I don't mind getting more if they'd like it better. I know the gecko might enjoy how it holds moisture better. I also like MUCH better how it looks natural instead of bright, random wood shavings in the tank. The only downside is they'd get dirty and my leopard gecko would rather not have a bath. Not sure if my skink would enjoy trying to burrow in that more or less either since it seems a lot messier and harder to burrow through.

Would you recommend keeping the wood shavings or switching them to cypress mulch? Which do you think they'd be happier in?

Leopard geckos need a desert-type setup. If yours is an adult, you can use calci-sand or other desert substrate. For babies, I'd use paper towel or newspaper to avoid impaction. Wood shavings or mulches are NEVER appropriate for leos. It's only a short matter of time before they will lead to impaction or eye injury, plus they don't properly hold heat. You can definitely give him a humid hide to aid shedding, using moss or earth substrate.
Maybe some skink owners could chime in on their care. It's possible you need entirely different substrate for that one as well.

Noelle

Originally Posted by rcarichter

Leopard geckos need a desert-type setup. If yours is an adult, you can use calci-sand or other desert substrate. For babies, I'd use paper towel or newspaper to avoid impaction. Wood shavings or mulches are NEVER appropriate for leos. It's only a short matter of time before they will lead to impaction or eye injury, plus they don't properly hold heat. You can definitely give him a humid hide to aid shedding, using moss or earth substrate.
Maybe some skink owners could chime in on their care. It's possible you need entirely different substrate for that one as well.

Noelle

Mine is young and I do not feed my reptiles in their enclosures as to not have to worry about any substrate being ingested. Nowhere around where I live has the exo terra excavator clay, but at the NY expo next month I plan on getting some so the cage has a lot of clay. I want some bedding and some substrate for the bathroom corner of the tank though and I'm not sure what else to use. I have a humidity chamber already with some moss, vermiculite, and the shaved coconut soil type substrate. Heat is not an issue since I have a heating pad below the tank and right above that is the humidity chamber and another hide which both trap good amounts of heat. There is also a good amount of heat coming up from below since I have the skinks tank with a screen top below. The leo tank takes up a good amount of room and a good amount of heat rises up from below. The whole tank is always around 84 and the heated area warmer. My gecko likes to push the wood shavings around his bedding area and arrange it how he likes so I wouldn't want nothing for him to move around and make a comfortable bed area with. I'm not worried about eye injuries since the wood is never even close to his eyes and the only way it could be injured is if he went to attack a cricket or something, which I never feed him in his tank anyway. I don't want to risk ingestion of any type of substrate and make sure I watch the entire time my lizards eat as well, even though no substrate is around. My gecko has never had any shedding problems, he turns light when he is ready and he sheds so fast I'll check on him just a little bit later and he's all shed in no time lol.

So then what would you recommend I use, besides sand or anything, I don't really feed comfortable ever using it since I feel like even if they accidentally lick the ground or get some on them and lick themselves or get any in their water and drink it then it could be ingested. I'll have the hardened clay all over the tank and some substrate, but not covering everywhere, just for the bed area and bathroom area mostly.

For your two lizards i would just use a 50/50 mix of dirt and sand. If you make it deep enough it holds a good amount of moisture, and can be used for digging. As far as the whole impaction issue with reptiles in captivity, I believe that as long as they are properly hydrated (hydrated is the keyword here) and healthy, then they should be able to pass virtually any indigestable material. I have kept all of my animals on organic garden soil for years and have not had one single issue with impaction. With leopard geckos, a lot of people do not realize that these animals in the wild (as well as hundreds of other desert dwelling lizards and snakes) live in burrows that go deep underground where the temps are cool and they humidity in the chambers are nearly 95%, so this is why i cannot stress enough how important hydration is for captive lizards when it comes to impaction issues.

Agreed. I use peat/sand for all my desert animals, most because it's cheap, easy to get, and holds the temps exactly the way I want. I, too, have never have a problem with impaction with sand. The only impaction problems I've ever encountered were with fiber substrates. As long as you don't feed babies on play sand, it shouldn't be a problem. Once they're adults, I switch to play sand, and I feed in the enclosure. If the crickets are large enough, they won't get too much sand.
I couldn't quite tell from your description, but I assume there's a cool end of the enclosure?
Sounds like the shedding is going well, that's definitely good.

Noelle

Originally Posted by rcarichter

Agreed. I use peat/sand for all my desert animals, most because it's cheap, easy to get, and holds the temps exactly the way I want. I, too, have never have a problem with impaction with sand. The only impaction problems I've ever encountered were with fiber substrates. As long as you don't feed babies on play sand, it shouldn't be a problem. Once they're adults, I switch to play sand, and I feed in the enclosure. If the crickets are large enough, they won't get too much sand.
I couldn't quite tell from your description, but I assume there's a cool end of the enclosure?
Sounds like the shedding is going well, that's definitely good.

Noelle

Here is a description of my enclosure now to give you guys a better idea. Largely shaved wood is what I have for the temporary substrate. As I said, I've had no problems especially since I don't let him feed in it as to not ingest any. I have 2 coconut shell hides (one on heated end one on cool end) a low rock hide on heated end, and humidity chamber made of a very small perfectly sized styrofoam take out box with a small hole cut in front. Part of it is right above the heat pad which keeps it from getting cold in there and it's not hot either.That is filled with a little coco fiber, vermiculite, and moss. I spray it with a mist every day to make sure it's a holding moisture, but don't soak it and make mud. I have a shallow water dish in the center. He crawls on and in all his hides and moves around and bunches up all the wood chips near his bed. (the rock hide)

I really liked the idea of the hardening clay (which I would not put on the heat pad, I'd probably keep that with just a soft substrate like I'm trying to figure out to make sure warmth gets through) because I think it'd give him more places to hide and climb though. What do you think?

Also now that I hear about the fiber substrates causing impaction that makes me a little worried. I was thinking of using some coco fiber for the bed and bathroom area as one of the options. Would that be a bad idea even in the case of how mine isn't fed in the tank?

You hear a lot of stories of people having to pull fiber out of the back end of a gecko, but it shouldn't be a problem if you don't feed on it. I know you don't like the idea of peat/sand, but it sure is a lot easier for leos. Cocofiber is a forest substrate, which usually requires the use of plants and/or decomposers (pillbugs, snails, etc) to keep clean. With sand, you can just scoop up the poop. You'll always have some left behind to mold with fiber. I'm not trying to be discouraging, just letting you know what works best for the animal.

Noelle

Originally Posted by rcarichter

You hear a lot of stories of people having to pull fiber out of the back end of a gecko, but it shouldn't be a problem if you don't feed on it. I know you don't like the idea of peat/sand, but it sure is a lot easier for leos. Cocofiber is a forest substrate, which usually requires the use of plants and/or decomposers (pillbugs, snails, etc) to keep clean. With sand, you can just scoop up the poop. You'll always have some left behind to mold with fiber. I'm not trying to be discouraging, just letting you know what works best for the animal.

Noelle

It would be a little harder for me to get, but yea I'm definitely starting to like the idea of the peat/sand. Can you give me some links to some types you'd recommend? I don't want to get the wrong kinds or anything.

Calci-sand is available from most any pet store. If you don't have a store nearby, you can order it. LLLReptile is good. You need enough to put a couple inches on the bottom. This can get very expensive, which is why people mix it with peat. Just make sure the peat has no added fertilzer. As I said before, adults can be put on play sand, available at any hardware store.

Noelle

I personally HATE calcisand. I've heard several nightmare stories about impaction and had a couple of bad experiences myself with the product and let's not forget that calcisand stains your gecko whatever color the sand is.

I've kept my leopard geckos on ReptiBark with great success in the past. It's easy to clean and the chunks are large enough that the gecko won't eat it. Undertank heaters won't cut it for heat though, you have to use a heat source from above or the side. An incandescent bulb or ceramic bulb works great. Even if the gecko bites the bark, they spit it out. I used Reptibark for five years with zero issues. I used calcisand for six months and had two impacted geckos and "black" albinos from the dye in the sand. I stopped using ReptiBark and switched to papertowels since I started using dubias because they like to burrow, but calcisand is not the dream product everyone may believe it is.