Choosing the Type of Euthanasia

I recently read/heard of two cases wherein reptile keepers euthanized their animals because of hopeless medical conditions. I have no problem with that, and am not addressing the issue of whether or nor someone should or should not euthanize an animal. My issue is that: both chose to freeze their animals to death!

I almost cannot believe how some people claim to be more humane because they choose to prolong the actual euthanasia process, and therefor the potential suffering of the animal when they choose to euthanize by way of cooling and then freezing an animal to death. (Don't get me wrong I am not always against freezing - for instance when a matter of practicality to kill a large number of animals at once. What I am befuddled by is someone claiming that killing a single pet is more humane or better because tit made the animal suffer less than would have a swift death.) I imagine some believe it is better to take the animal off heat, then put it in a fridge and then into a freezer as a way to make it easier on the animal but; I truly believe this is only an excuse for making it easier on the keeper who does not want to dole out death by his/her own hand and who does not want to see it happen. I believe this method only makes you feel better not the animal as it is out of sight and easier out of mind.

Do people really think it is better for the animal? I would like to hear why anyone believes this method (freezing) is potentially less stressful on the animal than would be an extremely swift death. A swift death is just that, as opposed to one that surely took so much time in which the animal could suffer the effects of the cold and of its being frozen piece by piece. Pain, when a swift death is administered, is likely not felt, or is felt only for a moment, because the animal is dead within a moment. When freezing an animal, it probably does suffer the effects of freezing such as feeling its limbs freeze before the remainder of its body. Yes even in a cold blooded animal the extremities are apt to freeze first because their smaller masses hold heat for a shorter period than would the larger masses of their bodies.

I think a quick death, such as a snapped neck, a crushed head, a pin into the brain, throwing the animal against a hard surface with a strong throw would all have been the much more ethical thing to do! I certainly am open to hear why people prefer freezing, and on what they base their argument.

All the best,
Glenn B

I had to think about this for a few minutes, prior to selecting a response to the Poll. A sort of internal battle between absolute honesty and the impression I would rather give other people... Honesty won, but I feel some explaination needs to be given to justify my position (even though simply answering the poll would have been anonymous).

I chose the final option, although not entirely for the reason listed. When euthanizing an animal... any animal... I choose the method which is most convenient for me. I never go out of my way to be curel of course, nor do I enojoy watching an animal suffer... so the most convenient method will always be legal and in some manner humane. However this does mean that when euthanizing rodents for use as feeders, I won't go to the effort of setting up a CO2 chamber... When euthanizing a fish or herp, I'm not going to pay a vet a few hundred bucks to put it down with a lethal injection and if the time ever comes when I have to euthanize a terrestrial invert, I will likely just step on it.

That being said however... Freezing is not a humane way of euthanizing *some* animals. Humans, in our conceit, tend to classify and categorize everything using our own terms, our own experiences and our own biology. It's why anthropomorphism is so rampant- the majority are truly unable to value something without forcing it into human terms. Freezing is supposedly a painless way for a human being to die... I have never tried it, so this is not firsthand experience but the brain apparantly shuts down physical sensation after a point and a sort of comatose sleep occurs prior to death. There is evidence which strongly suggests this is NOT the case in many other animals (including other mammals) and that consciousness will remain until death sets in... slowly, as the flesh progressively freezes and dies.

I truly love reptiles, amphibians, fish, inverts and even some other mammals- but I do not value them as highly as I value humans. If forced with a choice between the lives of long term pets that I have kept for decades and come to regard as being an intrinsic part of my life or an anonymous stranger, the human wins every time... I say this to explain that I do put a lesser importance on the potential for suffering. I also firmly believe that many animals do not HAVE the same potential for suffering that has been shown to exist in mammals and birds. A reptile has no concept of self awareness, no ability to conceptualize abstracts such as the future... Much of the suffering from a human standpoint comes from worried anticipation, we worry about shutting off the brain, the "self" rather than physical damage. While a reptile certainly has instincts for self preservation and CAN feel pain, evidence strongly suggests (The evidence i choose to believe anyway) that pain is merely used as an indicator of physical damage, which can sometimes trigger an instinctive response if there is a present and obvious cause but otherwise... Well, we're all aware that a herp will sit on a hot rock while it's flesh cauterizes and the burns even go so far as to penetrate the body cavity, which certainly seems to mean something about what the brain of a herp does or does not do with certain sensory information.

So... I have put animals in the freezer in the past as a way to euthanize them... I likely will again in the future if it's the most convenient of avaliable options even though it is never my first choice when presented with a range of choices. Frankly I preffer to break the neck or dislocate the spinal cord when given the option but there are some species where I simply do not know enough about the way the skeleton is structured to make this safe or easy. I know how to snap a rat's neck and the animal is dead before it has a chance to understand what's happening... I can't say the same about most lizards... Certainly enough force could easily be applied to a gecko to make it something of a moot point... Can the same be said for an adult tegu or monitor? Would pulling or twisting be more effective for a snake? Does angling the grip help or should it be a straight movement? If I screw it up and merely paralyze it, is it okay for me to put it into the freezer?

Put simply...I believe that freezing puts the animal in a state of hibernation...unconsiousness if you will. The reptile in question will not feel anything...assuming that what I believe is true. Could you prove it is not true?

Freezing is what I have done always and continue to do...when needed.

As has been pointed out, this is not the best choice with other life-forms, such as mammals. In my opinion, there are too many variables in breaking a reptiles neck. For reptiles, having your neck broken is not a natural event. However, cooling the reptile to the point of hibernation and beyond IS a natural event. Much more humane in my opinion.

However, cooling the reptile to the point of hibernation and beyond IS a natural event.

Beside wood frogs, and a turtle or two, please tell me which if any reptiles or amphibians actually hibernate or are cooled beyond 'hibernation' (by which I assume you mean freezing)? None of which I am aware, but I am open to learn. Even if you are able to name a few, do Boa Constrictors, Burmese Pythons, Sulcatta Tortoises (and the list goes on and on) hibernate? In fact many animals, many herps included, in nature, are never subjected to freezing temperatures at all - so how could freezing them be natural?

Rather most herps from temperate zones, of which I am aware, brumate. Brumation does not mean the animal becomes cool enough to sleep - brumation does not put them to sleep as you seem to be saying. Sure reptiles sleep when brumating, but they also spend a great deal of the day awake. They drink water, they crawl about a bit and so forth. Bears on the other hand do hibernate and actually sleep for prolonged periods during the winter at which time their digestive and renal systems go through a drastic change in functioning to accommodate hibernation.

I wrote this.

I certainly am open to hear why people prefer freezing, and on what they base their argument.

This is one of the replies I received.

Put simply...I believe that freezing puts the animal in a state of hibernation...unconsciousness if you will. The reptile in question will not feel anything...assuming that what I believe is true. Could you prove it is not true?

I was hoping for a more two sided conservation of the issues than an 'I says its this way you says its that way - prove it' kind of a thing. Don't you have anything to back up what you believe, or do you just believe it so it must be true?

I certainly can prove that when my animals brumate they do not become unconscious except when they sleep. The sleep-state is only part of brumation, the animals are awake for quite a bit of the day while brumating. If you want proof of that, I am willing to give a demonstration any time you wish to come to my home in the winter when I am keeping temperate species of herps. Sorry but I will not go for the "if you will part". Temperate species of herps do not become unconscious because they brumate, at least snakes that I have kept do not, nor do the ones I have read about. They are not like bears in hibernation. And yes I can also prove they feel things in brumation.

My snakes regularly drink water while brumating. To find the water they use their senses, especially flicking the tongue to capture particles in the air to be transferred to the Jacboson's organ. If they were unconscious and incapable of feeling as you suggest, would they be able to do such while brumating. I can prove that at very low temps - down to at least the low forties, at least snakes can also use their sense of touch. If the temp at one end of the enclosure gets too cold they seek out the warmer end - which is apparently more to their liking temperature wise. They also regularly respond to touch of the keeper, when the enclosure is opened to add water to their bowl. Yes they do feel at low temps. Of course they may not feel Freezing cold, but they apparently can feel too cold. My Desert Kingsnakes, and others, prefer a temperature in the low fifties Fahrenheit rather than one that is a few degrees higher or lower for their preferred resting place while in brumation. Do they not feel too cold or too hot? If that was never the case then why would a snake ever thermoregulate? Sure some may not move off a heat mat until burned, but maybe that is because they need to feel thoroughly warmed throughout before they move or simply because the heat sensing nerves are not as functional in the ventral surface. This does not mean a snake does not feel cold or warmth. Again, as I just said, if they did not feel cold or heat, what is the mechanism by which they seek to thermoregulate?

Now I throw the ball back to you to prove to me that they do not feel it, nor that they feel freezing as their extremities freeze first. (Yes even snakes must follow the 'laws' of physics, and it is likely that the tip of the tail would retain the least heat and freeze first because it is much thinner than the remainder of the body. The head might freeze next, but the tail would likely do so first.)Furthermore, even if you wish to interchange the words hibernation and brumation, or even if you can show that brumation is technically a form of hibernation - show me where the normal function of hibernation/brumation is to kill an animal. This just is not so, nor is the normal function of brumation to render a herp unconscious or incapable of feeling. For you guys to suggest for a moment that it is natural or painless death for a reptile to be frozen to death, and that a broken neck is not a natural way, or just as painless a way, for a reptile to die, is somewhat puzzling to me! Your argument seems weak.

Snakes, lizards, turtles, salamanders and frogs that brumate do not freeze to death as a normal function of brumation. With rare exception they do not even freeze and remain alive (remarkable creatures the wood frog and I believe some turtles which can be frozen and survive because of special chemicals in their systems) but freezing to death is not the normal course of brumation. Sure animals in nature may freeze to death, but so too do they have their necks or spines broken in nature or their heads crushed, etc. I really am curious to hear more on your beliefs, and would like to hear you out further on this, but first here is something else to consider; it is a bit of a twist for you guys to ponder:

Animals, including herps, in nature also estivate. I am fairly positive that many amphibians (and possibly other herps) do so when the temperatures get too hot or when conditions are too dry. Do you suggest for a moment, I wonder, that a 'humane' manner in which to dispatch such a herp would be to subject it to a slowly ever increasing amount of heat until it becomes unconscious and dies because the torpor caused by estivation is natural? I think this would be using the same logic you give for the freezing type of euthanasia but my guess is that you would not consider this humane. Of course, I could be wrong about what you would consider humane, yet my guess would still be that most others would not consider it humane.

I still don't know if freezing is more humane than snapping a neck or another form of rapid dispatch. However I still wonder what I wondered originally: How is it that people believe freezing - which takes a prolonged period with normally available freezers - is a more humane manner of euthanasia than is a swift death by other means? And please bear in mind, I am not ranting against freezing - I have killed a number of pinkies this way in order to freeze them for later use. I am really mostly wondering why anyone considers it more humane than the other methods mentioned when it comes to herps. While I believe other methods are more ethical or more humane, they are certainly not always more practical; and I also think both are possibly ethical enough - but - I am wondering about it.

All the best,

Glenn B

I've never had to do this yet for any of my lizards, so I'm definitely no expert in this area, but I heard about a guy who used CO2 to euthanize rats to feed his snake. He has a small plastic chamber and a system to use the paintball gun CO2 cartridges (or something similar), and a small mechanism to release the CO2. It would seem to me that by doing so, the animal goes into a kind of dizziness and then loses consciousness (Similar to people who die by leaving the garage door closed and the car running). I don't know if this would also apply to reptiles, but it seems like it would be better than freezing them. Again, I'm no expert in reptile nervous systems so take it for what it's worth. I'm curious to see what others think about this method.

Brian Skibinski
Milwaukee Reptiles

I prefer a swift death myself although you feel terrible at first you think about it and it seems less painful to the herp. I had to put a leopard gecko out of its missery once and so i just euthanized it by hitting it on the head with a hammer while he was in a pillow case. Actually i didnt do it my friend did and this is what he said " wow he was still quite a lively little guy" that sure made me feel better.

I have only had to put a couple of herps down - one Mediteranian gecko (a feeder) and my grey rat snake. The gecko was put in the freezer and the rat snake was euthanized at the vet's office ($30 for a lethal injection, not terribly expensive in my book). Prior to euthanizing my rat snake, I discussed my options with my reptile vet. I asked him about the freezing method and it was his opinion that for very small herps (such as the gecko or neonate snakes) it was a perfectly viable option. However, he also said that it is now widely believed that larger animals do feel the pain of freezing because it is instinctual for them to coil up and conserve heat...meaning they freeze bit by bit. To me, that isn't humane. I have very strong views about our responsibility to our pets and I believe a humane and painless death is part of that responsibility - cost shouldn't be part of the calculation in my book. Most people thought I was nuts for amount of time & money I was spending on 'just a rat snake' but he deserved the best quality of life I could provide, including treatment for illness and/or injury and a humane death in the event treatment didn't work, which in this case it didn't. The value of an animal shouldn't determine the quality of care it receives.

All that said, I'm not against freezing in the right circumstances - smaller animals that quickly freeze. I regularly dispatch mice by dropping them into a pillow case and hitting them into a hard surface - rarely do I not kill them on the first strike - so I have no problem with other quick humane methods. I DO have a problem if someone decided to euthanize a pet themselves and doesn't really know what will work and botches the job, making a second attempt necessary. To me that is simply unnecessary suffering the animal must go through.

Dianne

so i just euthanized it by hitting it on the head with a hammer while he was in a pillow case. Actually i didnt do it my friend did and this is what he said " wow he was still quite a lively little guy" that sure made me feel better.

If the blow hit the Leo square on the head, and had any force to it with, lets say, a regular sized nail driving hammer, then the Leo was likely dead immediately on the first blow. Lots of animals move for long periods of time after being killed by traumatic blows. This is due to muscular spasm, nerve impulses and such. I have seen a snake's body still writhing over an hour after someone cut off its head, and I think anyone will readily agree that a snake minus its head is dead. To bad about that one, I would have kept it or at least removed the snake from that person's property.

As for freezing small herps as opposed to large ones, they too, in my opinion, would likely feel the same sensations that a larger one of the same species would feel.

I discussed my options with my reptile vet. I asked him about the freezing method and it was his opinion that for very small herps (such as the gecko or neonate snakes) it was a perfectly viable option. However, he also said that it is now widely believed that larger animals do feel the pain of freezing because it is instinctual for them to coil up and conserve heat...meaning they freeze bit by bit.

While a small snake would freeze faster than a large one that were both the same initial temperature (because a larger body retains heat longer than a small one) I cannot imagine any difference in how each would feel sensations of pain. Nor can I believe that a smaller snake would not freeze bit by bit as would a larger snake - it would just happen faster but certainly not instantaneously throughout the entire body of a small snake in a regular freezer.

I just prefer a quicker method, much quicker, than freezing in cases of dispatching a single animal. While I have mentioned ethics before, I am not too worried that either method is unethical, just that one would likely be somewhat quicker and less painful, in my opinion. Of course matters of simple practicality may push my choice to freezing in some cases, such as when dispatching a large number of animals at one time; and here is a good point to address the CO2 issue.

He has a small plastic chamber and a system to use the paintball gun CO2 cartridges (or something similar), and a small mechanism to release the CO2. It would seem to me that by doing so, the animal goes into a kind of dizziness and then loses consciousness (Similar to people who die by leaving the garage door closed and the car running).

I know little of the workings of this method regarding physical effects on the body such as pain, but have heard of its use many times. I wonder if it is painless or not. While people and reptiles do not have the same sensations of pain, nor do they feel pain because of the same causes, it may be of interest to search out what people who have had close calls with CO2 have to say about their experiences.

While CO2 asphyxiation may be somewhat similar to death by CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning, you must bear in mind that you probably should never kill a food item with CO. I only point this out because you said they were similar, and someone may think they are all too similar and try it. I believe you never should use animals killed by CO as food items because, if I recall correctly, CO kills by actually poisoning the afflicted animal (or by being toxic - I am not being very technical here and I don't know if there is a difference between poison and toxicity). CO poisoning can easily kill humans, so there is also a potential for personal human poisoning too while using it. CO2 on the other hand kills by suffocation due to lack of oxygen as it displaces oxygen in the air. Too much CO2 and too little oxygen causes you to suffocate. CO2, I think, is not a poison. CO being a poison or toxin theoretically may be able to adversely affect an animal that ingests it in sufficient amounts when that animal ingests another animal that died from CO2 toxicity.

I think the one thing about not many people using CO2 to dispatch animals, is that the method is basically the same as is used in a gas chamber. I think many people find that quite repulsive because they associate thoughts of gas chambers with the genocide of Nazi Germany. It just creeps people out. Another reason people may not use CO2 to dispatch animals is that this method could be dangerous to humans. Of course that would probably require a large amount of CO2, probably more than would be used to kill some mice in an improvised gas chamber. (CO on the other hand may or may not require as much exposure, and I sure don't want to find out by experimentation on myself.)

On the other hand CO2 may be a great way to dispatch a large number of animals at one time, possibly more ethical, or at least less traumatic to the animals, than freezing; and better than killing a bunch of rats or mice in the freezer along with my next steak.

I may have to try the pillow case thing with mice and rats in the future. I usually throw them to the floor with a hard fast swing and that does it. The thing is that both the mice and rats pick up dirt that way. The rats often spray blood too. I hope there is never any type of forensic examination of my basement. If they ever spray Luminol, they will find lots of blood splatter but all rodent, and maybe a bit of mine from a snake bite or two (LOL). It would all be neater in a pillow case.

All the best,
GB

I may have to try the pillow case thing with mice and rats in the future. I usually throw them to the floor with a hard fast swing and that does it. The thing is that both the mice and rats pick up dirt that way. The rats often spray blood too. I hope there is never any type of forensic examination of my basement. If they ever spray Luminol, they will find lots of blood splatter but all rodent, and maybe a bit of mine from a snake bite or two (LOL). It would all be neater in a pillow case.

The pillow case thing is neater and pretty much the same as the hard fast pitch into the floor - it keeps the rodents clean and the occassional blood splatter in contained in the pillow case. I will advise that you be sure the pillow case seams are sewn well - I have inadvertantly shot a rat across the room after impact due to a weak spot in the seam. Since I kill mice in my living room, I don't even want to imagine what a forensic examiner would think! LOL

Dianne