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Old 08-20-2007, 10:27 AM   #1
Patternless Northern Pine?

Hello All,
I posted this on the Kingsnake forum and haven't rececive a response so I thought I would see if you guys can help me out. A few weeks ago, I was at the local swap meet and came across a seller with several subadult and adult pits. These sellers are always there but I have never bought anything from them. Well, the pits drew my attention, so I went over and started looking at them. There were patternless,ones and a couple that looked "leucistic" but without the black eyes. I assumed they were all southern pines. I was talking to the sellers about them, and they told me various things about each one. I ended up purchasing a nice yearling female of the "leucistic" type. She has a really nice rose hue to her, but no pattern at all, and her eyes appear to be white.

Well, I went back to the swap this past weekend to see if they had any pits left and they did. As I was looking at them, I saw the label said Patternless Northern Pines. Well, I wondered if they had just made an error, and I was told that they were indeed Northerns and not Southerns as I had originally thought. They told me that they have never kept Southerns. They said that their adult female that produced most of the subadults and adults that they had available was around 14 years old. Could it be possible that these are pure Northerns? Is there any way, I could tell if my "leucistic" female is a Northern, Southern, or integrade? Any help would be greatly appreciate. Thanks.

Take care,
Jeff Port
Old 08-20-2007, 07:54 PM   #2
For some reason, I think patternless Northerns are actually Northern X Southern hybrids. I believe there has never been a pure patternless Northern found in the wild, so they were created by breeding the patternless Southerns into them. I'm not positive about this at all. Just repeating something I seem to remember reading, and seconding thoughts you already mentioned. Hopefully someone more expert in pits can give a better answer. Just trying to give you something to go on, somewhat.
Old 08-20-2007, 08:09 PM   #3
Hey Ryan,
Thanks for the input. I actually found an article in the January 1995 issue of Reptiles Magazine about the first known Patternless Northerns produced from unknown het siblings. Interesting article. Would like to hear from others on this though. Thanks again.

Take care,
Jeff Port

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