Cage height?

I am building some cages for an indigo. I have a 6 feet by 2 feet footprint available. I can't make it any wider due to a door swing. I was going to go 2 feet high just to make the cuts easier. I could go as high as 3 feet.

How much cage height does a full grown indigo need?

Scott,
One foot is enough, two is plenty. Indigos are mostly fossoreal,{ground dwelling}. Unless you plan to add live plants, and or some type of climbing apparatus. Square foot horizontal area is far more important than head room for indigos. Longer is better, 6, 8, 10 feet even. But if you build for cribos, use an opposite strategy, as they are at least partially arboreal. Come on over to www.indigosforever.org
T.

I have encountered several wild D. couperi in trees and most all of mine will utilize climbing opportunities when provided, so I would be inclined to provide as much "head room" as possible and provide furniture for climbing opportunities, as the exercise will do them good.
I recall the first D. couperi I found basking in a tree, as I thought it was a motorcycle tire at first glance! However, should the choice ever be to go with height "or" floor space, as Tony has indicated, floor space should be given first consideration...

Best regards,

Jeff

An adult indigo snake in a cage with climbing furniture, is much like a bull in a china cabinet. Stuff will get broken, tipped over, and destroyed. And it is entirely possible that when a branch breaks, or tips, it could fall into the glass front, and break it. Worse case scenario, your snake could injure itself, or break the glass and escape. In my opinion, unless you plan to build an enormous cage where the climbing opportunities are well away from the glass front, I would not bother. If you wish to increase the indigos opportunities for something to do, you can use my sewer pipe method. Place sections of 6" pvc pipe inside the cage with elbows, and Ts, Much like a hamster habitat. And simply reconfigure them when the snake gets board with it. If you decide to allow your indigo to climb in it's cage, just beware of the damage it can do to the cage and itself, when a branch breaks or tips over. Make sure you use very strong stuff, and make sure that stuff is securely fastened to the cage wall.

And I am very wary of wood furniture for snake cages. Especially wood collected from the wild. Wood furniture can harbor all kinds of nasty things, like mites, crypto, and who knows what. Unless you bake it in the oven, you can't be certain what it has.

Yes, Ive read several accounts of indigos climbing trees in the wild. But then again, monkeys sometimes swim too. My big males climb around inside their cages all winter,.... even though there is nothing to climb on. And several times a day, I hear a big THUMP from the snake room, when they fall. It worries me, and I would not reccomend encouraging that behaviour. Indigos are not built for climbing, although they do, they aren't really good at it. Monkeys are not built for swimming, although they do, sometimes. Good luck with that cage.
T.

I would assume, one familiar with working with large snakes would realize the need to secure such furniture within the enclosure, as to prevent such from being tossed about. While Drymarchon are large acticve snakes, they are not nearly the "bulls in the china shop" you would have us believe.
Yes, many primates swim and most folks who maintain such in captivity provide opportunities for such. Also, having worked with Drymarchon for almost 30 years and observing them for 10 years in the wild, I can say with a bit of confidence; they are quite arboreal and to limit such specimens to the floor of their enclosures is quite uncalled for, should one be able to present such an opportunity for climbing.
Also, I have not encountered a single report of C. serpentis being contracted via contact from natural wood and many species of wood are impervious to mites, I have used cypress branches for years to no ill effect. However, I do prefer to use artificial branches now, as such are much easier to clean and I feel as though cypress should not be harvested for such reasons...

Best regards,

Jeff

All I know , is what I observe with my indigos, in particular Mongo. He IS very much like a bull in a China cabinet,...BIG, heavy, powerfull, and not too graceful. And they do have opportunity to climb in, and over their tunnels. I make vertical, as well as horizontal twists in the pipes. Just not way up high where they might hurt themselves, or break something. And while I cannot definitely pin crypto on wood, I did have one indigo die from crypto, and I was using some wild collected wood at that time. Never again.

What this boils down to is a matter of opinion, {{And we all know what opinions are like!}}, and what spacial resources are available to the individual keeper. I don't think this guy has all that much room. Personally I like to give my indigos as much space as I can possibly provide. And if this guy wants to encourage climbing/arboreal activity with his indigos, so be it. But he should know ahead of time, all the possible implications. At some point, some day, I plan to build some giant room size, walk in enclosures, with natural subsrate floors, plants, grasses, palmettos, and trees, and a big swimming hole, complete with fish, amphibians, anoles, geckos,tortoises, and small birds. But for now, I am restricted by the space available in my home. And I suspect, Scott has the same problem. So if he wants to make it 3 feet high, he can. But It's not really necessary. So my recommendation is to give that snake as much room as you have to give. But I would be afraid to encourage too much climbing, and if I did encourage climbing, I would be careful about how I did it. And if he limits his cage height to say, 1.5 ft., he can then build a second cage on top, or a second level for that cage, and/or have room for a breeding pair. In the end, I think indigos like to move period. I don't think they care which direction, as long as they have enough space to move around, and enough stuff to explore. Especially if you take them out frequently. Just don't keep an adult indigo in a 2x2 enclosure that only gets cleaned monthly, and feed it only chicken necks like someone we both know does. Jeff uses cages that are 4x8 and I don't know how high. But I would say that is big enough to safely incorporate some climbing furniture. But Jeff has the space for that. Scott, on the other hand, is limited to 2x6. And I would say that's not enough to safely incorporate climbing furniture. When the snake reaches adult size, and it falls,...and it will fall if it climbs, it could easily fall against the glass, or plexiglass, and hurt itself, in a cage that's only 2 ft. wide. I use Vision cages which are about 2.5 ft. deep, 6 ft. long, and about 2 ft. high. So I don't really have enough hieght available for climbing. And If I could, I would sqeeze them down lower, and longer. But again, it's all about personal opinion, which is based on personal experience. And it's about space available. So Scott, whatever you do, just be careful, and aware of ALL the possibilities. My experience tells me that for your limited space, my method would work fine. In the end, it's all up to you. Good luck,
T.

You cannot make a generalized statement regarding a species based upon the observation of a few captive specimens over the course of a few years. Once you have many years of observing dozens of animals, both within the wild and captivity, then you can make such generalizations with a degree of certainty. This is much like the discussion of temperament among D. corais, as many will describe the species as high strung and openly defensive, based mostly from their observations of only a few specimens, which I find quite disappointing, as such will cause many potential keepers to turn the other cheek and not attempt to work with these magnificent creatures, based upon the observations of a few individuals who have happened to have a poor experience with a specimen or two.
The truth is, if you design the enclosure around the species to be housed within and you have studied up on the species, you should have no problems providing a suitable enclosure harboring a variety of enrichment opportunities and I find that providing opportunities fro enrichment, especially for specimens as intelligent as Drymarchon, to be equally rewarding for the keeper, as you will provide yourself with an opportunity to observe behavior and activities among your charges many never have the opportunity to experience…

Best regards,

Jeff

As I recall, it was “suspected” that C. serpentis caused the demise of your D. couperi, as such was never clinically diagnosed. In the future, it would be best to make certain you indicate such was suspected and not indicate such as fact without an accurate clinical diagnosis, as there are a great number of pathogens which could have been blamed for the demise of your snake.
I would also like to point out, C. serpentis is generally a water borne pathogen, so contracting such via enclosure furniture, whether wood or not, is highly unlikely unless such has been contaminated with fecal matter from an infected specimen and the captive specimen somehow ingests such. Also, you will find that most specimens harbor non-clinical levels of C. serpentis and such is generally not an issue, unless something else environmentally or pathologically stresses the animals immune system…

Best regards,

Jeff

I have successfully kept, though not for extended periods of time, indigos in cages that were 4 ft wide, 2 ft deep and 6 feet tall. The branches went top to bottom and were screwed into the sides of the cages. The entire volume was utilized by the snakes. I've kept yellowtails in the same setups.

I've also kept them in 4x2x2 ft cages with no ill affects.

I would think that in the wild an occasional fall is the norm, not the exception and these guys seem pretty tough.

Tony, you know I like you and mostly like what you say, but these are not porcelin dolls, they're big robust active snakes. There is more than one correct way to maintain them in healthy and seemingly, since they reproduced and ate well, happy conditions.

That is one disadvantage to using Visions (among other disadvantages), they are not easy to modify. With a homemade laminated wood or Plastic enclosure (yes Tony, some of us live in civilization where you can by sheets of HDPE, PVC, etc) you have much more versatility. Incorporating a shelf is virtually no effort. When offered a shelf, many species will happily utilize it. This includes traditionally terrestrial species such as Mole Kings, Farancia, Agkistrodon, Crotalus, Heteredon, etc. A shelf is simple, secure, and easy to replace if it gets severely befouled. Snakes get much more exercise climbing rather than crawling.

As far as Drys hurting themselves ........ bah, I wouldn't worry about it. You are talking about an animal that secures its prey through brute force. These are pretty tough critters, as are most snakes. I have a Gray Rat who's face was ran over by a car and he has been doing great for years (aside from the bulldog face). I have seen a 6' Gray Rat in south GA grab a squirrel and fall 40 feet out of a tree before, eat his meal, and crawl away. The two greatest threats of injury to a snake are cars and shovels, not their own weight.