need info,recommendations or encouragement

I'm at a lost and not sure if it's worth trying anymore..i got this up on another forum but tough i might get different oppinions here at the same time.

this is the story of the same albino female i asked about a while ago.
so a quick run down of events.

last year i got her off a guy in Montreal who had a few snakes for sale;
phone conversation said she was a good 800g, then email before meeting she's down to 650 ish, and finaly home she weighted 525g, a p## o## but hey she looked nice.
the day we met was cold so the inspection was quick as to keep the snake warm. (my mistake)

after i got her home she was set up in her large bin for evaluation (quarentine) same room but seperate from all the rest , the bin and snake were treated as a prevention measure for parasites.

this is where it all starts:

after about 10 days we noticed weasing and nose bubbles, contacted the kid and told him about it so he would check all is other snakes , of course they are all perfect and his story of getting rid of all his visuals to only breed special secret projects with hets is the reason he sold his snakes...
anyhow, i decided to take her to the vet and get her treatment.. since she would probably die if given back ( my mistake again)

so treatment history:

first vet visit got baytril injections , 5 total , every second day all seem to be well and she started feeding for a few months and got up to the 800g ball park

symptomes came back, actually never fully went away as i kept her seperate and watched her closely (summer now) and tried the home remedy with the vicks, said to work.. well it help but never went away, so another vet visit and they insisted baytril again, this time i gave the injections myself since they did not know where to give them.
after my research they should be injected in the upper 1/3-1/2 and they went lower 1/3.
that's another story.(i switched vets)

after this, she was still feeding and looked like she would finally recover.. but at closer examination, things were still not 100% so to the new vet i went ( well respected herp vet) she prescribed fortaz injections 9 all together plus a swab and a culture exam.
I have my oppinion about cultures now :-/

she seemed to be out of the woods but this time she pooped and had a sent gland prolapse !#$%$!@$!@%$%$@ i didn't dare fix it myslef ( i did try to massage it back in and try the water sugar treatment.....so back to the vet.
I made sure she stayed wet ..so more fortaz was given as it seems she had a little mucus still and a anti-inflamatory to help.., lungs sounded fine.. the vet wanted to do a x-ray to make sure she wasn't pregnant ?????? the snake has never been near a male, unless that ###K tried breeding a 525g female and she retained sperm ????

after injections were done, she prolapse again, this time i fixed it myself, pooped and found a little blood and diarea stools !!!!! :-o $!@$!$@@!^ ok so took the poop sample for analysing, results came back negative.

she now prolapses evrytime she pees, she hasn't eaten in 3 month, looks a little dehydraded, because while treating, i had to keep the cage (glass now) dry and sterile because of the bacteria found in the culture, humidity feeds it so water bowl had to be desinfected daily and cage cleaned as well, while keeping warmer temps.otherwise when she drinks, she will contaminate the water and in return re-contaminate herself !!!

she comes out at night and looked as if we got her back to healthy.. so i taught..
finally the RI seems to be cleared (only good news)but her rear section seems infamated and redish almost blood clought like, she's looking skinny now.. wanted to force feed to help..
i know it's not a BURN the max temps are 92 where she sleeps in the hide

just for info : i have over 10 years experience with snakes and never had a sick snake before this one, all my other 35 snakes are perfect including my royal pythons,green tree python, emeralds boas, amazons boas , retic.
cages are cleaned daily,water bowls are filled daily and clean/switched weekly, everyone in on paper towels with proper heat temps and controlers, room is kept at 80deg and 50% humidity, arboreals are sprayed daily and other snakes as they need to be, all shed perfectly and eat as they should - other than the royals that are in breeding mode(off feed)

sooooo sorry for such a long read and thank you for all who take the time to read.
I may missed a few little details but that is the most of it..

I guess what i'm trying to get as info or guidance is:

when do we call it quits ??? 1 year 750$ in vet bills and seems just when she may be going to make it something else pops up...
is it worth continuing to help her fight back to health or count my loses and walk away with my head donw... just put her out of her misery !!! i feel after doing all this it's hard to give up when she may just be to the point of making it, then again , is it going to take another 700$+++ and have her die as an end result ????

i have photos but for some reason the photo bucket transfer seems to have changed and i can't upload ????? says click and drag but when i do so, no options to save show up ??

thanks for your time and feel free to share info and taughts regarding this poor female

Steph

It sounds like you've done all you could - the area by her tail looks horribly bruised. With all the prolapses, I'm wondering if she has major damage to her colon. It also looks like she's lost much more weight than sporadic feeding for a year would cause. Without spending a lot of money, I don't know that you would get answers. Even if you did, she may not be treatable. I hate to say it, but I think I would be done at this point. Even if she started eating, defecating would cause more problems with her prolapse. It's a really tough decision to make. Sorry you were put into such a bad situation.

Originally Posted by yeloowtang

when do we call it quits ??? 1 year 750$ in vet bills and seems just when she may be going to make it something else pops up...
is it worth continuing to help her fight back to health or count my loses and walk away with my head donw... just put her out of her misery !!! i feel after doing all this it's hard to give up when she may just be to the point of making it, then again , is it going to take another 700$+++ and have her die as an end result ????



Steph

This to me would be the hard part to figure out as well.
The animal deserves to live if indeed its possible to regain health. On the other hand if you feel like the snake is going to pass away sooner or later because of the illness, then I would get just one more pet visit to lay the snake down.

For me, ether I would continue with the treatment if I felt that a comeback was out there, or I would put it down. I wouldn't let it live with being sick like this.

I wouldn't want to live for months and months sick.

I'm sorry to hear about this. It does suck when you try and try to save an animal and it doesn't get better.

thank you both April and david,

I don't know if her colon has a probelm ?? only 2 weeks prior to this
her fecal testing came back negative..
her sent gland prolapse, is anoying but easy to fix...i"m hoping, maybe wishfully so that if i can get her to eat and rehydrated , that part will stop..

we are keeping a close eye on her, she will shed in the next couple of days, after this i will try to feed her.If she refuses, then i will go to the vet and get carnivor mix formula and tube feed her a few times.. as stressful as it may be for her, it might give her the strengh needed to pull trough..

someone on another forum mention looking them in the eye and if they see life then it deserves a chance... i know this sounds silly but looking at her she does still seem to want to go on..

i will give her the chance to try even if she does need my help..
then if it keeps going down hill i won't have a choice..

thanks you both for the replies and support..

i will update as it goes, fingers crossed that she makes it..

Looking at the pictures, I'm seeing a very underweight snake with several problems...most likely including persistent infection.
It's easy to say cut your losses; much harder for an animal lover to actually do - especially with a snake that doesn't show obvious signs of suffering. Frankly, though, it's a battle you're probably going to lose.
I'm sorry.

Thanks Harald,

I do have a feeling you are right on this one

once the shed is done and if the feedings don't work, i will have to end the suffering of this poor female.
I'm still hoping for a good end to this story... but chances are slim..

the only thing keeping me going with her, is the way she's so curious when we take her out for inspection.. tougue flikering, fast moving still fairly strong but on the lower weigth of where she should be for sure...

as long as she doesn't regurge, is all i ask when she feeds, if she regurges then ... i guess that last vet visit will have to be THE one..

Hard decision for you, I think that personally I would let the vet advise - she obviously is not a simple case, and although you are fighting hard for her, there comes a time to admit she has problems more complex that can be dealt with.

And once the trauma is over you might want to think about starting a warning thread in the BOI on the guy who sold her to you with these problems, if you think she came with them. You might also have a case to have him contribute to some of those vet bills if that was the situation.

Thanks Helen,

for now the fight continues, she had a nice shed and some of the redness went away. we soaked her and she peed in the water, the sent gland came out but it retracted on its own this time
not out of trouble yet, still got ways to go , but encouraging none the less.

as for the BOI ???
I don't think i want to go there, at this point.. i feel it's not worth it.
In the end i made the decision to keep her, be it a mistake or not !!!

it was last year and all i have is a few emails that i tell him she is sick and then that i will try to treat her.
he claimed his other snakes were fine..
I know she was sick when we got her, i just did not take the extra time to check her out that day becasue it was cold outside when we met. that's my mistake.

an infection juts doesn't get that way in a few days.
after she was home, we leave snakes alone, don't touch them until we try to feed. well !! we did take a look at her for parasites, just did not want to stress her out by opening her mouth,, huge mistake that i should have done when we met..
we tried to feed her 3 days later just to see if she would eat, she jumped on the rat right away and started eating it... cool we taught BUT next morning the rat was spat out and gooey... so at that point we kept a close eye on her.
7 days later we fed other snakes and tried her again with the same results, but by that time we noticed bubbles out of the nose..

since i have never had a sick snake ever, it didn't get it from my colection.
i contacted him to let him know, but he argued his were ok ... soooo it could have gotten a cold whene he took her out to show her to me ??? or he knew it was sick, hence the good price on her

so because of the lack in proof, i don't want to get into a BOI fight and live with my mistake... live and learn

Has your vet ever considered that maybe a viral infection is occuring? That could explain why the antibiotics only worked temporarily, what kind of bacteria was found after the culture/swab? I am starting to see more and more viral infections occurring with clients coming to my hospital rather than just bacterial infections, It is important to always have them tested for this, not to just give an antibiotic and hope for the best (which is what ive seen most people do). She may have had the virus even before you got her, so when she was brought into a new environment (I.E. your care) the stress of the move and new environment brought on these symptoms you are now seeing. Unfortunately there are no antiviral drugs being used on reptiles (that i know of) and the best thing you can do is wait it out (while increasing the heat, force feed, anything to keep her alive) or euthanasia. I would not consider it cruel or inhumane to do the latter at this point

If you do plan on keeping her, you need to get her tested to determine if a virus is the culprit