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SOUND OFF!!! Ever have something REALLY bugging you and nowhere to vent about it? Well, this is the place. It does not have to be fauna oriented at all! Get it off your chest right here.

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Old 08-13-2020, 05:11 PM   #1
WebSlave
Voting ballot form

So I'm looking through the local newspaper (ours here only comes out weekly) and noticed a page showing a sample ballot form for the upcoming election in a few days. What caught my attention is that they have one form in English, and another in Spanish.

Maybe it's just me, but why the heck would someone who cannot understand the printed English language be voting in USA elections? I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as heck don't want anyone but a bonafide AMERICAN voting on people who will be placed into positions to have influence over MY life as an American citizen.

 
Old 08-13-2020, 10:30 PM   #2
LauraB
I agree 100%.
 
Old 08-15-2020, 06:05 PM   #3
Lucille
Nope, don't agree with y'all. There are several nations which are bilingual, one of the few times I have been out of the U.S. is when my family visited Canada, their language is English and French.
My Grandpa, born in Russia, ran away from the Communists and ended up living in Connecticut, spoke little English but was a hardworking (electrician) taxpaying person. I don't think the description of an American citizen necessarily includes fluency in English.
The Hispanic population is significant in America, I believe one out of every 5 American citizens is Hispanic. I believe we are headed in the direction of being a bilingual English/Spanish speaking country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WebSlave View Post
I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as heck don't want anyone but a bonafide AMERICAN voting on people who will be placed into positions to have influence over MY life as an American citizen.

I agree. But I think an American who, for instance, speaks Spanish and knows what he is talking about would be a significant improvement over some of the English speaking fools now running the country.
 
Old 08-15-2020, 08:31 PM   #4
WebSlave
Regardless, I believe that someone who has a right to influence the direction of this country via the ballot needs to be legally OF this country before exercising that right. This country is supposed to be a "melting pot". Applicants need to be willing to "melt", not expect the country to restructure itself in order to accommodate them so they can remain different and apart from the rest of the country. Unless the United State of America is united by it's traditions, laws, customs, and language such that everyone can easily and completely understand and relate to each other, just what exactly will be "united" about us?

Requirements of USA citizenship:
Quote:
General Eligibility Requirements

To be eligible for naturalization, you must:
  • Be at least 18 years old at the time you submit Form N-400, Application for Naturalization.
  • Be a lawful permanent resident (Green Card holder) for at least five years.
  • Demonstrate continuous residence in the United States for at least five years immediately before the date you file Form N-400.
  • Show that you have been physically present in the United States for at least 30 months out of the five years immediately before the date you file Form N-400.
  • Show that you have lived for at least three months in the state or USCIS district where you apply. Students may apply for naturalization either where they go to school or where their family lives (if they are still financially dependent on their parents).
  • Be a person of good moral character.
  • Demonstrate an attachment to the principles and ideals of the U.S. Constitution.
  • Be able to read, write, and speak basic English.
  • Have a basic understanding of U.S. history and government (civics).
  • Take an oath of allegiance to the United States.
Certain applicants, because of their age and time as an *LPR, do not have to take the English test for naturalization and may take the civics test in the language of their choice. For more information, see the exceptions and accommodations page or the USCIS Policy Manual Citizenship and Naturalization Guidance.
* Lawful Permanent Resident

Source: https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/le...ent-of-5-years


Specifically I do NOT want anyone in this country illegally to have even the tiniest smigeon of a say in the direction of this country. Not one single solitary little bit. As such, those people need to be denied access to any method of voting in any and all elections. If the language of the country is used as one method of filtering out those people, then so be it. Every other LEGAL resident of this country needs to be able to understand the language of the land they are living within in order to be able to participate in what makes this the United States of America and us Americans. I do not believe it is unreasonable to expect people coming into this country with the intention of staying to JOIN us as a unified culture, not to just permanently be a visitor living in their own self made walled off island of customs and language.

IMHO.
 
Old 08-15-2020, 09:13 PM   #5
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebSlave View Post
Regardless, I believe that someone who has a right to influence the direction of this country via the ballot needs to be legally OF this country before exercising that right.
I agree. I anticipate, because of the large Hispanic population, that changes will be made in the future to laws that address language requirements, perhaps taking the citizenship test in Spanish. And if the Hispanic constituency becomes as large as is currently anticipated, there may be statutory requirements for certain jobs such as teachers, doctors and police to demonstrate bilingual abilities.
 
Old 08-15-2020, 11:16 PM   #6
WebSlave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
I agree. I anticipate, because of the large Hispanic population, that changes will be made in the future to laws that address language requirements, perhaps taking the citizenship test in Spanish. And if the Hispanic constituency becomes as large as is currently anticipated, there may be statutory requirements for certain jobs such as teachers, doctors and police to demonstrate bilingual abilities.
Personally, I would rather not see that. I would like this to be a UNIFIED country in all things, as much as humanly possible. Of course, these days, that seems to be a futile hope, but hope it still is. Making wider gulfs with legally enforceable differences is not the road to take for that goal to be even remotely obtainable. Quite frankly, if I intended to move to Italy, I would expect to have to become an Italian, which would mean leaning to read, write, speak, and understand the language of the land. Otherwise, might as well just stay home.

If someone wants to come and live in America, then they should expect to become an American. Which naturally includes learning English. Otherwise, well, you just can't have your cake and eat it too. If someone wants to remain a foreigner, then heck, why not just stay where you are obviously more comfortable with the customs and language? Yeah, I know, perhaps they can live in a place with 300, 3,000, 30,000 other people who have chosen to not adapt and melt into the melting pot. But all of the other people doing the same wrong thing (in my opinion), doesn't make it any more right for a single person doing wrong.

We can't bring this country together if everyone is fighting to be separate. Seems to be a VERY obvious lesson to take to heart.
 
Old 08-16-2020, 04:03 PM   #7
sschind
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebSlave View Post

We can't bring this country together if everyone is fighting to be separate.
I may have read a more fitting comment somewhere in the past but for the life of me I can't remember what it might have been.
 
Old 08-16-2020, 04:21 PM   #8
Lucille
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebSlave View Post

We can't bring this country together if everyone is fighting to be separate.
There are a multitude of culture/nationalities here, but food, entertainment, art, and so on create a distinctly American culture. I do not think a bilingual language mandate will change that.

The very differences among us help make America the richly diverse country it is. Many families celebrate their own foods, their own culture, and many groups of people have differing religions as well. Demanding homogeneity would destroy what America stands for.

However, you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I would think you would naturally demand that the American national language be changed to Spanish should present trends continue and the large Hispanic families outstrip the falling birth rate of the Anglos, and the Hispanic demographic become the majority here.
 
Old 08-16-2020, 05:51 PM   #9
WebSlave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
There are a multitude of culture/nationalities here, but food, entertainment, art, and so on create a distinctly American culture. I do not think a bilingual language mandate will change that.

The very differences among us help make America the richly diverse country it is. Many families celebrate their own foods, their own culture, and many groups of people have differing religions as well. Demanding homogeneity would destroy what America stands for.

However, you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I would think you would naturally demand that the American national language be changed to Spanish should present trends continue and the large Hispanic families outstrip the falling birth rate of the Anglos, and the Hispanic demographic become the majority here.
I don't have a problem with America changing because of the demographics taking place demanding such a thing. As long as the change was being prompted because of population changes made by legal citizens and there is legal Constitutional precedent and federal jurisdiction for such a thing to take place. To have changes effected because of the influence of illegal immigration, in my opinion is ill conceived and suicidal as a nation. I doubt anyone can convince me of any logic that would support illegal immigrants (most of which quite likely have made no effort, nor have any intent, to become legitimate Americans) becoming influential in any way with how I will have to live my life.

Is it really a legitimate election if a large number of possibly illegal immigrants, who need to have the ballot printed in their language because they don't understand the de facto native language of the United States of America, might tilt the election one way or the other? In my opinion, no. And quite honestly, I just cannot think of any logic based reasoning anyone could use to argue that it should be.

Could legal Mexican immigrants become a voting block large enough to force a referendum on the nationally recognized language of the USA? Sure, I suppose so. But I have to ask, why would people who decided to come to the USA to escape from whatever it was in their home country, and living here to take advantage of whatever attracted them here and make the choice to come here in the first place, want to do such a thing?

I would hope people making the effort of becoming Americans would be just as proud of that goal as people born as Americans should be to BE Americans, and want to keep it that way. If not, well, why not? What was the point of coming here? If someone coming from Mexico wants to be Mexican instead of American, well, they HAD that before they came here. They are welcome here as Americans, but don't try to convert us Americans to Mexicans, please. If we wanted that, we would just move to YOUR country.
 
Old 08-23-2020, 07:59 PM   #10
JColt
Many Spanish can speak English very well but are limited-English proficient when reading. My nephew who is an interpreter in Spanish for a pharmaceutical company says still after 15 years of speaking Spanish he will get funny looks or laughed at because he gets context wrong.
 

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