Opinions on Neil's banning.

Honestly....I really don't understand this at all.  I hoped that you would respond by telling me WHY you think what you do...  I guess, in the case that you do come back and read this, I will go ahead and respond.

"If none of these options represent your opinion, feel free to post your thoughts below

I did just that. You dont like it, tough"

-Um, actually you said earlier that none of the choices represented represented your feelings.  This area here is for sharing your opinion.  Your opinion did not answer the pole, it simply bashed the pole, so you didn't do "just that."


"Geez, come on people, speak your minds.  Not too many of you guys ever really bite your tongue, why now?  

Again I did just that and if you dont like it, tough."

-I didn't even say that.  That was someone else that also wanted to hear ppl's opinion on this.

"141 looks and 18 opinions??!!  Come on people.  If you're scared to post your opinion here, at least vote.  No one can tell which way you voted.  But seriously, I'd like to read more of what ppl have to say also.
Lucas

I am not scared, but you kept begging for a responce so I gave you mine. You dont like it, tough."

-How the heck do you figure that I'm begging for a response?  You sure seem to be trying to make me look like I'm begging for responses my implying that all of these quotes are from me, when they aren't.  I posted ONE time that there should be more votes as there were a ton of ppl looking at this poll, and I didn't see why more weren't voting.  And, like I said before, your response had nothing to do w/the pole.  All you did was bash me and the pole.


"Yet we all do have a voice in this,

You read mine already, if you dont like it, you guessed it, tough."

-Nope, didn't say it.

"I stated at the begining of this thread that if your opinion is not represent in any of the choices that I have put up, then feel free to state it below.

I did and you didnt like it, tough."

-NO, you didn't.  You bashed the thread.  You NEVER gave your opinion on the matter at hand.

"I just don't see anything wrong with it,  

I do and you dont like it.  So guess what, tough"

-Don't remember saying that.....

"Whatever the reason, your comments were, in my belief, totally uncalled for

See above to see just how wrong you are."

-Didn't say that either.....But, I totally agree.

"So I will not comment any further or vote.

So dont bother to reply and save the band with for a real topic of importance.  I wont be back to this thread to see it"

-OK, don't vote.  No biggie.  But, I seriously don't understand why you came here and did this.  I guess this is all pointless, cuz you are apparantly not going to read it.  

Bad day or something?  Please explain why this has you so upset?  You started a flame war over this, and I still don't understand what I possibly could have done wrong here....  
Feel free to respond if you do decide to read this.......
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?
-Lucas-

Tim,

It was very nice of you to share that extremely telling last post. What does it tell - it tells, in my opinion, a lot about you, how you think, how you feel the kind of person you are. &nbsp;As for you, I am pretty sure, in my opinion, you must be quite proud of yourself and proud of the shining example of 'Tim'ness that you gave us in that last post. I'll bet you talked yourself into a frenzy both before and after writing that one - telling yourself just how great a guy you are and how foolish is everyone else. I could give you my educated &nbsp;opinion or my personal opinion as to what type of person I believe you to be, and as to the mental processes that you used to come up with such a wonderfully remarkable comeback; however, I have decided to keep you in suspense because as far as I am concerned you are not worth more effort than I have already expended. &nbsp;

Oh shucks, I forgot: You said you won't read this or reply or any others - but what a laugh it will give to the decent folk here when they read it - don't you think! By the way, I will not reply to any more of what I believe to be your ill mannered posts. As opposed to you saying you would not reply again, and then doing so, I will not reply to another such posting from you. I am sure that if I did it would only be a waste of my time.

Well, anyhow, goodnight. Enjoy the weekend if you can.

Best regards,

Glenn Bartley

Glenn-

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(although 'poorly worded' would be the better way of writing that if you truly want to play grammar games). </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Tim's statement of the poll being &quot;worded poorly&quot;, was directed at Lucas. Not you. So why do you feel the need to point out a flaw in Tim's use of grammar?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Boy I wonder who could have posted, what was in my opinion, that less than civil, flame throwing, bait trolling post. Oh it was you - wasn't it!
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Was your reply not in essence the same thing?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why not make a more appropriate addition to the thread if you have something worthwhile to say?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Is Tim not a person? Does he not have the same rights as any of us? Who are you to judge whether or not what Tim has to say is worthwhile?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for you, I am pretty sure, in my opinion, you must be quite proud of yourself and proud of the shining example of 'Tim'ness that you gave us in that last post. I'll bet you talked yourself into a frenzy both before and after writing that one - telling yourself just how great a guy you are and how foolish is everyone else.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Are you or are you not bashing Tim? Looks that way to me.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I could give you my educated &nbsp;opinion or my personal opinion as to what type of person I believe you to be, and as to the mental processes that you used to come up with such a wonderfully remarkable comeback; however, I have decided to keep you in suspense because as far as I am concerned you are not worth more effort than I have already expended.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

More bashing?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">to the decent folk here when they read it</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Again, who placed you in the position to summarily judge Tim based on two posts?

Granted, Tim's posts may have not followed a popular method of decorum. They may have been lacking in tact. However, based on your responses to Tim's posts, you have now placed yourself in that same position. The position of &quot;flaming&quot; and trolling. With your ad hominem attacks on his character, his mannerisms, and his intelligence. And as for education. So am I to believe that you are somehow better than Tim? Based on an education that you have stated that you have? What if you are more educated than Tim? Does that give you a right to exude your superiority? That, in my book, makes you an elitist. I don't care if you have multiple PhD's. You sir are no better than any of us. And then again, I could be wrong. I could be reading more into your posts than is actually there. If so, I apologize. I am not afraid to speak my mind. And I stand fully behind my words. If I am wrong, feel more than free to correct me. Maybe you didn't realize how your posts came across? If you are so inclined, I am open to a response. Thank you for your time. Have a goodnight.

Lucas-

I commend you for your responses to Tim's posts. I realize you disagreed with what he had to say. However, I feel that you replied with a great amount of tact. You were able to disagree and still be civil about it. If I had one (as I don't wear one), my hat would be off to you.

I agree with Tim Bowles of Arboreals of the Rainforest very insightful comments on page 2.

*clearing throat*

just to kind of get this thread back on topic i thought i'd post my opinion on the matter.

as a rule, i don't post here often. mostly, i don't have anything to say. not that that doesn't stop a lot of other people. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

anyway, i understand why neil was banned. he had been warned before. numerous times. but i'll admit, i'll miss him.

as for being the board &quot;cop&quot;, from what i have seen in the past couple of months that i've been coming here, neil is hardly the only person who took it upon themselves to remind others of the rules of posting.

and why are there people who are still allowed to post here when every reply they post has to be edited for language or is full of insults to the other posters?

i commend rich for taking a stand and banning neil for crossing a line. i have nothing but respect for him (rich). but, in my opinion, if the stand has been taken, there are others who deserve the same.

Can I get in on the quote thing?? spam_Try this one....
spam_
spam_&quot;Isn't Neil the one who solicited funds for a Reptile store that was burglarized a year or more ago. Isn't he the one who supposedly hired a private eye to seek out the thieves. Then didn't the money sort of evaporate?&quot;


spam_Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was not Neil who solicited funds for the detective. spam_I also don't think he was the one in control of the money either. spam_Does James Thornton ring a bell??
spam_
spam_Also, about breaking the rules... spam_As it was said before, there are definately more than a few people here that have no problem jumping in on a thread only to post that someone has &quot;broken the Rules&quot; and nothing else relevant to what the particular thread was about. spam_Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you yourselves breaking the &quot;rules&quot; by doing this?? spam_POW, Your banned. spam_Not! spam_If everyone that has broken the rules here was banned for doing so after so many warnings &nbsp;(post your full names, no excessive language, no personal attacks and bashing, keep your posts relevant to the thread (topic) at hand, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on etc....), quite a few of the people here would be sitting next to Neil reading along with him.
spam_Also, NO, I'm not one of Neils followers jumping out of the woodwork to defend him, nor am I a member of the so called &quot;Dirty (bakers) Dozen&quot;. spam_Just trying to pass on some thoughts and opinions.

spam_Bob

just to clarify something, i don't mean that everyone who breaks a single rule should be banned.

but i do believe there are a &quot;select&quot; few people who verbally attack, curse, and threaten others in nearly every post they make within certain threads.

they've been warned and/or reprimanded multiple times and yet they continue to be allowed to post here, only to attack and threaten others in subsequent posts.

I think Cindy has made a very good point in this thread.

Personally, I am tired of seeing most threads wind up being a bickering contest between the people whom have posted their opinions within the thread. &nbsp;This is real tiresome.

At first it may be interesting to see people pass a few words explaining their position, but once if turns to insults and jabs at each other, that's the time to cut it and leave it alone. &nbsp;

Everyone is welcome to their opinions here. &nbsp;Attacking one another for having opinions differing from your own is NOT welcomed. &nbsp;I like to see a lively discussion, but lately it seems to be taken to extremes, and it's time to put an end to it.

No I am not threatening to ban anyone in this thread. &nbsp;I do not plan to make the ban threat a joke by using it too lightly. &nbsp;But I would like to see a bit more maturity shine through from the people pounding on their keyboards and set an example for the new people coming around here. &nbsp;There are a lot of people on this board whom have been around for a long time. &nbsp;How is someone new in here supposed to think when they see the old timers acting like children?

I will not allow the BOI to sink into having a reputation of nothing but a bashing board. &nbsp;And I will have no bones at all about removing those people whom seem intent on making it that way. &nbsp;Please heed the warning I am giving you all here and now.

Thank You Rich.
Just to add to Cindy's post. &nbsp;Having just joined in may of this year I have taken the time to go back and read through a lot of the older posts and the old BOI. &nbsp;It seems lately things have gotten really personal with a lot of people. &nbsp;This board is a great resource, a lot of you guys are great sources of info as well. &nbsp;It does seem though in the last month or two everyone is a little more aggressive in their posts and some a little too sensitive to opinions and responses.

Two points to make, one small one large:

1) As for James: Sure James Thornton does ring a bell, but really think about who suggested the donations and who was the biggest flag waver when it came to that. Then think of who ran the so called investigation of the rip off after it happened, then think about who asked for more money for other similar burglaries. I don't think the answer will be James - but I have been referred to as a dithering old fool before and I could be wrong - although on another recent thread many people remembered it the way I do. I know that this James character was, in my opinion, a bad apple but I don’t remember it as he alone being involved in that rip off. As I said, I could be wrong on that one and am open to see postings (or better yet emails) to correct me if I am in fact wrong. Regardless of that mess, it is still apparent to me that the webmaster had more than sufficient cause to ban Neil based solely upon what he used as his reasons to do so. As far as anyone breaking the rules, the webslave asked that any further comments on the Neil/Dave slugfest be placed on the General Forums, didn't he? Even if that were not the case, this whole thread is not really on the subject of that slugfest but is appropriate to this forum as the real subject here (the ban) certainly does affect the way we will do business in the future; and this forum is dedicated to business issues. As far as relevancy to the thread goes, I don’t see any answers that were not at least indirectly relevant to the question asked. Maybe I am wrong here to but I really did not see anyone get far from the mark; not even you (and I am not saying that to be a wise guy but to get you to think from the other viewpoint for a moment).

2) As far as Emerald Guy's (John's) comments to me go, well you see yes I did criticize him down but not bash Tim. I think Tim bashed himself with what I think was a childish attitude expressed in his post. &nbsp;I only did so after he started bashing not others so much as his own chest. Did I bash him - no I don't think so. &nbsp;I was hard but remained civil. I don't think Tim did, and that is one of the points of why Neil was banned in the first place. As far as Tim having rights - &nbsp;none of us have rights on these boards. You are confusing rights for privileges. We are privileged to use this service as granted to us by the webslave. ‘Rights’ is a often misunderstood term, often used as a synonym for privileges; they are not the same by a long shot.

As far as flaming and trolling go, no I did neither. &nbsp;As I said to him - I will not answer anymore of his, in my opinion, nasty replies. As for you - you admonish me by doing just what I did - note I did not say what Tim did as you accuse me. I was civil, even if you did not like what I said, I did not say it in a nasty way. I don't think you are bashing me, but by using your own logic I could, if I felt so inclined, make that very same argument directed toward you.

Now as far as who placed me in a position to judge - I guess it was in essence the same authority who placed you in position to judge me, don't you think! I decided to make a judgement just as you too decided to make a judgement. Please don't tell me that I should not be judgmental when you yourself are being just that toward me. Being judgmental is a natural part of life - we judge things every day of our lives and I am not afraid to admit it or to do it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being judgmental when not taken to extremes. We side with what we see as better. I did that, then I expressed myself in an educated and intelligent manner or so I believe. You then came along and judged me as being wrong for judging someone else. Then you infer, I think, that I should not tell the person to make appropriate replies. Appropriate replies (or inappropriate ones) are the essence of this whole matter, the thing that got Neil banned in the first place.


As for education, I never stated my education as you said I did; nor did I imply that I am educated and therefor better than Tim. I did say I would not give an educated or personal consideration of one matter. Nor did I ever attack Tim’s intelligence in my posts – again though you wrongly arrive at the conclusion that I did so. You have to understand that I say and write what I mean. Plain talk, and not a lot of candy coated mumbo jumbo, is what you get from me. I usually do not write or speak by implication as you seem to have chosen to interpret me. I am a straight shooter - I say it as I mean it. Please show me where I actually gave a rundown of my education and where I said I was better than Tim, or where I attacked his intelligence in my posts. Should I assume that you question his intelligence level because you brought up the issue? I think not. You have, in my opinion, blown this issue way out of proportion from what I actually said. I stated earlier: I mean what I say (or in this instance what I write). I do not sugar coat my words, I do not hide behind implication. When I wrote those posts, if I had wanted to say that I was in anyway superior to Tim, then I would have plainly stated that. If I wanted to say, in those posts, I was at a higher level of educational learning than he I would have stated that plainly also. I said what I meant at that time – no implications on your part or of others was necessary. If you believe me to be acerbic you are right on there as for my tone in at least my second posting directed at Tim; his postings did sour me. Acerbic, however, is far from superior and I am fully aware of that. As far as correcting Tim’s grammar, I was just giving him a bit of what he had already handed out. I was not being superior there either; my grammar is none too perfect but please remember he started this grammar thing. I just thought I would let him see what it felt like directed at himself. Maybe that was a bit much now that I reflect back upon it, but my point was the same for him. His doing it was a bit much in the first place.


As for me giving my opinion on the matter when Tim’s post was directed at Lucas, well my post was directed at Tim yet you post to me about me posting to Tim. Isn’t that the same thing as my replying to one of Tim’s posts that was directed at Lucas? In essence I see no difference at all. Our postings are so much alike it is scary (LOL).


As far as how my posts came across they should have come across as biting criticism, just I think as your post came across. Please remember that I too am human. Therefor based upon all your criticisms I ask you to please read over your post directed at me, and with a detached sense of objectivity ask yourself if you did not do in essence exactly what I had done or at least what you say I had done. Note: I did not say ‘bashings’ as I am not that overly sensitive to take, even for a moment, your criticisms of me as bashing. I have read your posts before, I think you post civilly. Bear in mind too that I was never intent upon bashing Tim. Sharp criticism is what I doled out, and if Tim was too sensitive to take it then he should not have invited it – for that is exactly what he did, in my opinion.


I have made my points, I think rather clearly in plain words. Take these words for what they are worth. I don’t think they are worth much, certainly not more, but also not less, than at what any one’s opinion can be valued. After all that is all they are – my opinions. &nbsp;I will not state them again along this train of thought just to avoid any flame wars. That goes for Tim, for you and for anyone else. It is not that I will ignore you or your postings, but that, I don’t want to be thrown off the forums. So no more from me along these lines. If you want reply in the forum, that is your privilege. I am not trying to have the last word on this issue - I leave that to you or others. I am not trying to cut you off, just trying not to be booted out myself. Feel free to email me and we can continue, if you want, on a more suitable plane away from the possibility of inadvertently starting something that would be regrettable. Thanks for your thoughtful reply, it was a reminder of how people often interpret what I write as other than what I meant. I guess I rub some people the wrong way with straight talk because they choose to see something in my writings that I did not put there. I understand that and am not faulting anyone, to draw implications is part of life just as is being judgmental.

Best regards,
Glenn