I am confused

Originally Posted by Rock Star Reptile

Can we say a Woma & a HGW are like a Butter vrs Lesser?

We could say that....if a normal woma actually made a soul sucker when combined with a lesser, and not a queen bee look alike.

Butter and lessers still make an all white snake when combined together

normal woma crosses do not make the same animals as HGW crosses.

Maybe I can clear things up a bit. If you have seen enough of them it's incredibly easy to distinguish between the two. I saw a difference between the two when first laying eyes on them. If you know what to look for as far as ball python traits in general it's cake.

Normal woma: In general a spiderish look to it in color and some pattern but they can vary greatly...just like spiders can. Womas also have an elongated pattern that connects to back pattern. On the borders of the patterns along the sides they tend to have more of a yellowish hue instead of white...again it varies from animal to animal but in general it's night and day. Womas have darker eyes and more of a head pattern on most animals. Like spiders womas don't have any great amount of blushing in between the pattern on the sides or over the back. When they become adults womas tend to lighten a bit just as older spiders do. Womas also tend to have a monotone color/hue throughout the body and over the back.

Hidden gene woma:
Hidden gene womas tend to have an elongated pattern that is broken up in places and connects to the back pattern like normal womas but there are thicker areas in between the actual pattern and some really tweaked out patterned areas. The side patterns have bright white bordering them as compared to the normal womas that have more of a yellow border. Hidden gene womas have lighter eyes and some even have a steel color to them. As a rule they also are faded on the tops of their heads with no real pattern in the blushed out area. There is much more blushing coming up from the bellies and in between the pattern on hidden gene womas...very easy to spot this. The pattern on the dorasal area of hidden gene womas is pretty much always a bright yellow as babies/juvies and then dulls a bit as the animal ages but it's always brighter than the rest of the pattern color.

Here are some pics for comparison:

Normal woma pattern

Note the pattern is very close together and looks spiderish. No real blushing. There's head pattern. Yellow bordering the pattern on the sides. The overall color is the same on the animal as far as the pattern goes.

Hidden gene woma pattern

The pattern has much bigger gaps in between it and it looks nothing like a spider. No head pattern. Some nice bright blushing showing. Loads of bright white bordering the side pattern. The pattern is three different colors here with the dorsal being bright yellow.

So if you look back and forth at the two it's quite obvious what the differences are.

Here are some more pics and see if you can guess which is which.

1


2


3


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5

Just to show what the hidden gene woma does with combos here's:

Normal woma yellow belly


Here's what a hidden gene woma yellow belly looks like


Enchi woma


Enchi hidden gene woma


Lesser woma


Lesser Hidden gene woma


I hope you like the comparisons!

Originally Posted by Rock Star Reptile

Can we say a Woma & a HGW are like a Butter vrs Lesser? A Sugar vrs Calico? A Mystic vrs Phantom?
Can we say it is along those lines?
One that looks close but does something different when mixed with other morphs.
Thus making them a different morph with a name that confuses us..lol

Not a good example.
Womas and HGW are 2 completely different morphs. (The Hidden Gene part of it's name makes this discussion a whole lot harder. There are no Hidden genes) if Kevin had named it XXX there will be no discussion at all and people will be able to tell them apart as easily as Dave's comparison of a YB to a normal.

Butters and lessers have the same supers, they're both the same morph IMO just like a blonde pastel and a lemon pastel.
Sugar and Calico I believe are also the same just different names.
Mystic and Phantom - just like Butters and Lessers, you might get lighter/dark contrast one. When combined they make a super form.

Womas - As Willow said look like spiders minus the white sides.
HGWs - Golden color, crazy flames and blushing and it has a super form. One of the best morphs out there to make anything look better specially when mixed with the Blue eye lucy complex.

Matt, I was going to quote you, but on a Kindle Fire it is a little hard.
Your detailed explanation is perfect! I can now spot the differences perfectly. I won't ruin it for the OP, but thanks to your descriptors it is completely obvious!

Originally Posted by Diego Velarde

Not a good example.
Womas and HGW are 2 completely different morphs. (The Hidden Gene part of it's name makes this discussion a whole lot harder. There are no Hidden genes) if Kevin had named it XXX there will be no discussion at all and people will be able to tell them apart as easily as Dave's comparison of a YB to a normal.

Butters and lessers have the same supers, they're both the same morph IMO just like a blonde pastel and a lemon pastel.
Sugar and Calico I believe are also the same just different names.
Mystic and Phantom - just like Butters and Lessers, you might get lighter/dark contrast one. When combined they make a super form.

Womas - As Willow said look like spiders minus the white sides.
HGWs - Golden color, crazy flames and blushing and it has a super form. One of the best morphs out there to make anything look better specially when mixed with the Blue eye lucy complex.

So would it be better to say it is more like a Mojave vrs lesser But wait they both still make a white snake.. But wait they still make different stuff when combined to different morphs.. Hmmm
Maybe I should say it is like a Lesser vrs Albino.. Because they are nothing alike.

Originally Posted by Rock Star Reptile

Maybe I should say it is like a Lesser vrs Albino.. Because they are nothing alike.

While they are similar in appearance, they have completely different genetics. So I guess your comparison would be right. (Remember I am not a ball expert)

Originally Posted by Rock Star Reptile

So would it be better to say it is more like a Mojave vrs lesser But wait they both still make a white snake.. But wait they still make different stuff when combined to different morphs.. Hmmm
Maybe I should say it is like a Lesser vrs Albino.. Because they are nothing alike.

Mojo and Lesser STILL make an all white blue eyed snake (just dirtier or darker, because of the mojave's darker overall genetics) They still connect with each other and make a super form, they still live in the same genetic family.

Womas and HGW's consist of entirely different genetic make up. Theyare NOT on the same genetic line what so ever. A normal woma does not make ANYTHING similar to a HGW. The crosses are no where near each other in looks.

and since albinos are recessive, thats a silly comparison

It would be more like comparing an ENCHI to a PASTEL.

Your kidding me.. Lesser & Mojave make a all white snake.. ya don't say..
But they are completely different. So your saying that a mojave and lesser are going to make the same morphs when combined with the same snakes??

Not that I am trying to go any further with this. because I know the difference but I just want to push it a bit more..

Wait, unless your going under the premiss "same but different" then I agree. If that makes sense...

Originally Posted by Rock Star Reptile

Your kidding me.. Lesser & Mojave make a all white snake.. ya don't say..
But they are completely different. So your saying that a mojave and lesser are going to make the same morphs when combined with the same snakes??

Not that I am trying to go any further with this. because I know the difference but I just want to push it a bit more..

Wait, unless your going under the premiss "same but different" then I agree. If that makes sense...

Lol I didn't say they were the same, Mojo makes VERY different combos.

BUT they are still in the same genetic family as a lesser and butter, which is why they are compatible with them to make BEL's. Lesser and butters I believe are the same genetics, just different lines. Like all the different lines of pastels out there.