Genetic Snow X SHTCTB

as anyone can clearly see what this is all about . $$$

I can't speak for anyone else but IMO it isn't about the money, it's about integrity and honesty. Which, unfortunately, are both sometimes lacking in this business.

It's leopard geckos - not eternal salvation . . .

Maybe we need someone to step in and work out everyone's differences in the reptile world? Where is Steve when you need him? Hahahahaha.

Does this mean he bred and enough time has elapsed for his hatchlings to emerge, and still has not had his follow up yet???

absolutely not !

as i have said before the females are clean .

my male has been on meds for close to two weeks and is due for a few fecals .

no parasites have come from my collection . each group from each breeder is seperate , quaranteened , i work with them on seperate days even , use gloves , god what else , you have no idea and have been taking fecal samples to my vet as often as i can get it very fresh .

i know exactly what i am doing here . i am not some child that you can talk about in this way !

i invested alot of emotion into the snows before i even saw them in person .

greed ? OMG not at all . that is so funny ! i make $30 an hour at work my friend . it is not about the money , and if i had to pay three times as much and sell at 20% i would have because it is something i have developed a passion for .

first ,
i fell in love with a gecko ( i admit it ) , and with the thought of hatching the baby geckos and watching them grow .

i wanted the snows because i love the look of them ,the SS just blow my mind , and the babies are always alot of fun to see change .

second , its a big investment , it takes alot to be able to do that . you kind of have to get your mind set to be able to do something like that and it just doesnt go away .

i put forth emotion , interest , dedication , and well alot of money ,

i was very into it and ready , only to have someone slap me in the face .

you really have no idea what you are saying or who you are really talking about .
there is alot of BS here about me .

Dan P., I have no problem with you...................... but the things you say are very irritating. You just act REALLY WEIRD... and rub people the wrong way. Maybe you shouldn't post here anymore until you develop some better social skills? I hate that all this crap is going on, it really brings the hobby down............

Matt

Ok, again to clarify this. You said in the e-mail you thought the snow came sick from alex. Then it has only been 2 weeks since you found all this out????. If that is a true genetic snow, then that one that is on meds would have bred a female. right?

I don't see how you can call it quarantined, when you introduce a male to another female within the first month of aquisition. Since you would have to have done just that to have a genetic snow already.....

second , its a big investment , it takes alot to be able to do that . you kind of have to get your mind set to be able to do something like that and it just doesnt go away .

i put forth emotion , interest , dedication , and well alot of money ,

i was very into it and ready , only to have someone slap me in the face .

I'm sure alot of us here know the investments they have in their collections and setups.

The only slaps in the face i see, is the way you react when you can't get what you want.

For someone to brag about how much they invested into their projects, you seem to go about things the wrong way. You manage to slowly peave off a large percentage of the people who would possibly have bought and traded with you.

With the breeding biz, you may have competetors, but they are also potential customers. When you are dealing with high end animals, this is especially true.

I feel like alex was trying to make a right choice with not selling to you. You always seem to hold a grudge with any big breeder. You also just said

"i make $30 an hour at work my friend ".... "if i had to pay three times as much and sell at 20% i would have because it is something i have developed a passion for ."

Which also coincides with other comments of cutting the "bigger guys" out of the biz talk of yours..

Ok first let me say that reading all of this made me want to drink real bad!
Dan L, im a little upset with the fact that you KNEW that Alex was be selective on who got the Mac snows and that he trusted you to help out (in a way) with this project. You turned around and sold it right away to someone else. WTF is that?! A verbal agreement is an agreement regardless and in some states is just as binding as a writen one. That is a little.....ok a really disrespectful!

Dan P, how underhanded can you get? What you did was low and increditably screwed up! For someone who doesn't like big breeder then why did you even try to buy from Alex? And let me tell you something else i KNOW Alex and i KNOW he doesn't just NOT sell to someone with out just cause. I'm pretty sure it was more than just your attitude.

i know exactly what i am doing here . i am not some child that you can talk about in this way ![/quote]

And if this statement was true then you would have kept that male away from your collection for awhile instead of just putting him in right away! It DOESN'T matter who it came from and if the first test showed up ok. Some thing don't show up right away. God lord man learn what the hell your doing before you kill off your collection because of YOUR stupidity!

I could honestly care less at this point about Dan Poe. He is the least of my concerns regarding this matter. This is the same individual who not to long ago posted here stating he was new and decided to jump into a few large projects because he felt he would get no where breeding tangs. This is the same individual who has stated he would undercut fellow breeders out of spite and has stated his dislike for numerous reputable breeders that make this hobby what it is today.

Coming from someone with absolutely no background, reputation, or credibility....... It simply makes me laugh. Hysterically I might add.

Great, you've got some money to throw into some expensive projects. So do I, and I have. I make no secret of it, yet my intentions are far from greed. Yours however, well, we've seen for ourselves what you have said. It was quoted a few posts back, thank you Mike. You make an ass of yourself, prove countless times that you are inexperienced yet stubborn, and go on to show us all that you can be underhanded too. You hatch out a handful of leos and you're a pro. You know what you're doing. But of course, your idea of quarantine is a matter of days and simply keeping specimens from the same breeder together CERTAINLY proves you are a pro! Please note my sarcasm, give me a second to laugh a bit more and regain my composure.





Thank you.





I'm sure hell will freeze over before you earn the respect of anybody with the slightest bit of credibility in this hobby. And on top of all of this, no matter which situation you are presented with, you do your best to ignore credible questions, lie, and run your mouth. The best part about all of this? You're doing it to yourself, and we all get to watch. You're on your own, have fun and good luck. Let me know when you actually want to regain some credibility, you can start by collectively gathering your thoughts, and taking the time to articulate them here while adding an unfamiliar addition. Truth. Hope to hear from you soon.

My real concern in this is Mr. Lubinsky. I should actually say disappointment. I've spoken with Alex on a few occasions, and when speaking specifically about the Mack line snows he is very forthcoming. When screening potential buyers I also know it is a bit of a minimized interrogation. He makes quite certain the individuals showing interest in this line have good intentions with this project. There are also verbal agreements made and discussed. He's attempting to protect the value and potential of this line, and has proved to be a very respectable person in my eyes. I trust that he made his position clear on this with every "investor". And I am MORE than certain that Dan understood that he was being selective and protective. If the idea of sale were to arise it is unfathomable that he would not consider this unless he was simply not concerned or had a prior arrangement to obtain the specimen on Dan Poes behalf for "resale" sine Danny boy could not acquire his own. Perhaps there is truth behind the fact that Dan L. was unaware that Alex had denied a sale to Dan P...... But it does not excuse the fact he was well aware of everything else mentioned above.

This to me shows a total and complete lack of respect for those involved in this project. It also shines light on a person’s integrity. And the kick in the teeth was hearing that the sale was in part motivated by a desire for a sports car in the near future, questionably decided days after receiving said animal. It also happened to be the EXACT same animal Dan P. was interested in purchasing. Correspondence with Dan L. also began when conversations with Dan P. were halted. I do not like the cooincidences in this situation, no matter how much I would LOVE to give Dan L. the benifit of doubt in this, I guess I would have to see proof positive that his involvement in this matter was as he described. Perhaps he may provide such information? emails? anything?

No matter which way you slice it, this was wrong. Whether or not he made a previous arrangement with Dan Poe or not. Hopefully Dan L. will shed some light on this a bit later, I'd really appreciate his thoughts. There are too many "coincidences". It simply does not add up.

I apologize in advance for any typos, its a bit late.....

Once again, thank you all for an entertaining thread. I have to say I thought something like this would happen sooner or later and/or we'd see a ton of high-end geckos being dumped on the classifieds here or on Kingsnake (they usually come with skinny tails and in generally poor condition when this happens). This is one of the reasons we have always recommended to newbies (and I was one once, as well) to just enjoy the geckos and get to understand husbandry (that includes quarantine) and herpetoculture before trying to get the newest, most expensive morphs to get rich off of. I guess we (many of us, probably) saw this coming in threads over the past year.

I have a couple requests...Kelli(and others), please go update your available page(s), I'm dying to send you more $$. Chris, please do something with the weather up there in Buffalo, I'm dying for a box from you.

Thanks much and have a great weekend, everyone.