Reasonable length of time for a warranty period?

The whole point if this it to present a customer with a safety net to make them feel confident about purchasing an animal sight unseen and being exposed to the stress of shipping.

That's what it boils down to Rich, customer confidence. As a seller I try to instill that confidence in the buyer, but as a buyer I have a difficult time feeling confident of someone who limits their guarantee to 24 hours regardless of whether they claim they are lenient in applying it. The fact remains that it is an easy out if a problem does arise.
As for live arrival only, this pretty much eliminates any confidence whatsoever, and I simply pass on purchases under these terms.
It should be noted though, that for large quantity wholesale orders, I do find that acceptable, and I do not offer an extended guaratee in those cases. The much better price given to wholesale purchases along with the common conditions of such people's facilities in many cases does not warrant an extended guarantee.

For some animals, the metabolism is much faster, and with some exceptions, the animals with slower metabolism seem to develop problems at a slower rate. I could be totally off base with this, as I am only speculating, having the vast majority of my experience with Beardeds.

You are right on that Richard. While chameleons and certain other lizards can go downhill very quickly, snakes can easily linger on with problems for an extended period.
My comments and policies are for the most part derived from the perspective of a snake breeder. I will say that offering a 30 day guarantee on a chameleon may well be excessive, because in a months time husbandry can kill a cham.

You also mentioned cost effective for the seller. This is the area that creates the difference in policy between breeders and dealers. I most often notice it is breeders that offer extended guarantees, while dealers like to stay at 48 hours or less. This is a broad generalization and there are of course exceptions on both sides.
Dealers who breed nothing have an monetary investment in everything they sell. This gives reason to limit guarantees. Breeders on the other hand have a different sort of investment in their offspring. While it did cost money and alot of time to produce that animal, it's difficult to assign an exact figure to it, and replacing an animal doesn't really equate to a negative return. On the contrary, replacing an animal will likely lead to selling another.
Breeders are also intimately aware of the state of what they are selling. Having had it since birth, they know whether it is likely to thrive or if it may be a potentially problematic one, whereas a dealer may only have had the animal a few days when they ship it to a customer. For this reason they are in a position to offer the longer guarantee without assuming as much risk.
Where I depend on nothing but my own methods and husbandry to assure me that I am providing a healthy animal, a dealer who has only had the animal a few days has to hope his suppliers husbandry isn't going to cause him problems later. Considering what you brought up about snakes taking longer to develop problems, this adds to the risk dealers take. In my opinion it's just part of conducting buisness they way they have chosen.

I haven't sold anything online at this point - haven't found a way to ship yet that allows honest labeling. In fact, this will be the first year (hopefully anyway) that I'll be selling my neonate boas at a local reptile show. Prior to this coming litter, I sold my first litter wholesale to a local reptile oriented shop and have helped my best friend sell her litter recently at a couple of local shows. With her animals and my own, I have the utmost confidence in their health and condition. I know how well they feed and their overall health and neither of us will offer an animal that has not fed at least once, usually more. What I do not have confidence in necessarily is the purchaser. I do my best to make sure that whoever is buying an animal knows about it's care and it's history, even with her animals. Generally speaking for myself, I'm also willing to take a snake back if it doesn't work out for the new owner - at least on a case by case basis. While I may be more than willing to work with someone, I also realize that even with most snakes gross negligence on the part of the owner can speed its demise. A neonate boa kept in constant temperatures over 100 degrees can easily die. If kept too cool, it can easily develope an RI. What I'm willing to work with will vary greatly on how the animal was kept. All this aside, I don't have a written guaranty or time limit posted on my table, though I may have to consider it if my female produces this year.

Dianne

Dianne,

I've never once seen a vendor with any kind of guarantee period posted on their table at a show, though it is sometimes present on their pricelists.

In alot of ways, shows are different and I feel should carry slightly different guarantees than when buying online or over the phone.

At a show, most guarantees are usually pretty much "right then and there" situations. You got to look at the animal and choose it yourself from all the others available from that vendor and from all of the others available at the show. Even though I don't think a vendor should have sickly or non-feeding animals on their tables, if you picked out one of these animals, in my opinion, that is your issue(assuming the animal was honestly represented as such). However, I kind of ride the fence on this and I think it should be based on a per situation basis.
However, if you buy something on the first day, and on the second day of the show your animal drops dead, many respectable vendors/breeders will work out a replacement or refund, but this is not everyone.

Good points Rob. I've never seen any kind of guaranty posted on the tables though I've gotten some written on receipts of animals I've purchased. Before I started coming to the BOI, I figured most breeders and dealers were honest as were most purchasers. Yes, I knew before that wasn't always true but I am idealogical sometimes. I KNOW that this isn't always the case, and now that I'm starting to wade into the waters of seller versus just buyer, I'm trying to make sure I cover myself as much as possible. *shrug* It's a shame that I've developed that outlook, but I've read too much about the crooks on both sides of the fence and am more wary because of it. I am hoping to break more into the selling aspect as I raise the animals I have to adulthood and breeding size though I never plan to be a large scale breeder. It's still a hobby and I do it because I enjoy it. I also still need to find a way to ship before I can really look at developing any policies for that end of it. I've contacted all the major shippers, including Delta, and all have said 'no boas/pythons'. Maybe I'm just trying to be too straightforward in my labeling? I figure I've still got time to figure it out though.

Dianne

I'm so happy this is finally getting reponses.

Here's a new question to throw into the mix:

If the animal costs you $10 to buy or produce, how much should you sell it for and what type of guarantee comes with that price.

In my experience, this varies from animal to animal and customer to customer. I personally, try to limit my responsibility to the animal (other than answers to questions about care) after the sale. I don't want to be in the business of guaranteeing animals. Now, some customers absolutely require a guarantee, and if that's the case I am usually happy to sell them one. But how much should that guarantee cost them?

As an example, the above animal I'm thinking of is a snow corn. I sell the snow corns I produce to the public for $20 with a 48hour feeding guarantee. These are face to face sales and in about the last 6 years I've replaced maybe 10 animals. Now, if I were to have to ship the snake(s), I would have to add for the risk of shipping. Probably bringing the cost up to around $30. If the buyer wants a 30 day guarantee, I'm thinking somewhere around $50-60. Do these numbers sound ok to everyone?

If the $10 were a frog or a chameleon, I would probably sell it for around $15, as is where is, no guarantee. These types of animals are just to easy to kill. If the customer insisted on some type of warranty then they would pay dearly for it, and it would be limited to 48 hours (especially frogs).

Rich has great snakes, and I have purchased many from him. But we all know his snakes are a little more expensive than what we would pay from another breeder. Obviously, "the market" is willing to pay what Rich is asking for his animals. But, Rich is charging everyone that buys from him for that 30 day guarantee and you don't get your money back if you don't use it. Again, obviously, most people have no problem paying for that warranty. I personally don't like to ( I still do sometimes because as I said Rich has some nice snakes). I would rather buy the animals "as is." And by using my own knowledge of reptiles to judge their health save that extra 10-50%. Am I alone on that, or are there others who feel the same way?

Replys appreciated,
Brian

If the animal costs you $10 to buy or produce, how much should you sell it for and what type of guarantee comes with that price.

Brian, this is totally up to the seller. They can charge whatever they want to for that animal. It is not up to anyone but the SELLER to decide on a price for the animal. If I produce an animal and it only costs me $10, I may want to put it on my table/site for $100. That may or not be in sync with the current market, but that is my decision, just as it is for someone to buy it or not. There are some animals that have "standard" market prices(for instance, baby normal Leopard Geckos usually run $15-20 on average), however, that doesn't mean there are people that won't charge more or get more(for instance I used to charge $30-40/ea for juvenile normal Leopard Geckos and usually got it, but I felt that was what my animals and service were worth).

As an example, the above animal I'm thinking of is a snow corn. I sell the snow corns I produce to the public for $20 with a 48hour feeding guarantee. These are face to face sales and in about the last 6 years I've replaced maybe 10 animals. Now, if I were to have to ship the snake(s), I would have to add for the risk of shipping. Probably bringing the cost up to around $30. If the buyer wants a 30 day guarantee, I'm thinking somewhere around $50-60. Do these numbers sound ok to everyone?

Actually, I don't think so. I think you need to have one solid price that comes with the guarantee, not swap prices around based on how you feel about the guarantee.

Rich Z. charges $30(or whatever it is you charge Rich)for Snow Corns that come with a 30-day guarantee, PERIOD. He's not going to drop the price to $20 and give you a 48 hour guarantee instead. His prices remain the same across the board when it comes to the guarantee. I also think it is not only the guarantee, but that is what Rich feels his animals are worth, which I agree with as he produces TOP quality corns with awesome service(no, I am not kissing a$$) and if people are looking for some of the best corns, they will go to him and pay his price.

What you are suggesting is that you will offer someone a snow corn for $20 with only a 48 hour guarantee. But if they want a 30 day guarantee, they can pay $50-60 for that $20 snake? In my opinion, if you offer a guarantee, that guarantee needs to be uniform ACROSS THE BOARD. For snow corns, if you charge $20 with a 48 hour guarantee, then cool, stick with that. If you want to charge $50-60 for a snow corn with a 30 day guarantee, fine, stick with that. But if you start having "warranty package add-ons" it, in my opinion, makes you look shady. You are basically saying that the more money someone spends with you, they will receive better service than the person who spends less.

Now, I will agree that guarantees can change based on different animals. For instance, my guarantee on a gecko would be slightly different than one on a boa. However, the guarantees will last just as long. If I offer a week on a boa, then I offer a week on a gecko, but that is just me.

No, I wouldn't want $50-60 for the snow corn for a week guarantee. I would want about $30. That's a guarantee I would have no problem with. But you couldn't get me to guarantee a $10 frog for a week for less than $40. You see, that's why I think each and every situation has to be looked at separately.

Rich only sells corns, and leopard geckos (I think). 30 days on those two species is totally reasonable. My question to everyone is, do you realize that when you pay Rich's prices you pay for that guarantee on every single animal you purchase (not picking on him but he is where we started so that's where I'll stay). I personally would rather walk up to Rich's table and be able to buy w/o any warranty, save that money, and take my chances w/ the animals I select. If some of them die within 30 days, oh well, guess I don't know what I'm doing. But come on, Rich's stuff isn't going to die in 30 days.

If I went to Rich (or any other vendor/breeder/retailer) and payed $10 extra per snake, and bought 100 snakes. That's $1000 I payed in warranty fees that I won't need. Now, you could make the argument, especially in Rich's case, that the reason I don't need that guarantee is BECAUSE he charges more for his animals. Therefor he can spend more time with them, taking care of them, hiring extra help, etc. But, is $10 extra per animal worth it to everyone? It's not to me, unless I can't get the animal anywhere else. But, I buy a lot more animals every year than most people do.

You seem to be confusing gaurantee and insurance policy. If you charge extra for what you are talking about, that is insurance, not a gaurantee.
In the end, calling it whatever, I don't think a customer will pay $60 for a $30 snake, but they will still be upset if it dies within the $60 time period, and want you to do something about it. It's easier, IMO, on everyone, to have one price, with one garuantee, whatever that may be.

OK Richard, then lets use the snow corn example. How much cheaper does my snow corn have to be than Rich's, if mine comes w/ no guarantee? Let's say his is $30 and comes w/ the 30 guarantee.

By the way, there is NO difference between a gaurantee and an insurance policy. Anyone, anywhere, who is offering a quality guarantee on a product is, in some way, shape, or form, charging you (the customer) for said gaurantee. Much the same way your insurance company is betting that your house won't burn down when they charge you for that insurance policy, the persons offering a warranty that their product won't break down are betting the odds that it won't, in the time allowed for on their warranty.