I am so sick of low-ballers!!!!

Thats the name of the game!!!

Being offered $250, shipped, for a snake advertised at $350, shipped isn't all that horrible, once you've been doing this for a while. Don't get me wrong - it's nearly a 30% reduction, and I would decline the offer...but I get offered prices that are 40-60% less than my asking price too frequently (and I don't inflate my prices to allow for negotiation).

I do understand your point; but when you break down the offer like that in an attempt to show how bad it is, well....crap, I don't know how to put it. Look at it this way. You broke that offer down to $170-180 - which on the face of things looks pretty bad for a $350 asking price. However, break your asking price down the same way, with the same shipping, and a slightly higher paypal fee - say $10-12 (you overestimated, so I went with comparable numbers) - your asking price is only $270-280. (The net result is the same as before the breakdown...I think your displeasure with the offer just drove you to see it in the worst light)

I'll admit that I'm not aware of "current" or "market" pricing on mojave females; BUT, at 200g, she's still a baby - not really to the point where you would expect to get more money for her. It's nice in theory, but that isn't how it works. You might be basing some of your thoughts on the erroneous belief that subadults and adults actually sell for some of the crazy prices you see posted. A few might, especially if there is something extra nice about them, but most will get knocked down hard if the seller wants them to move.

Dealing with pricing is tough. You can spend weeks researching advertised prices before you post your animals, and go in at what you think is fair based on what you have seen...but how accurate a reflection does that give you? I could look at the classifieds right now and say that a 1400-1800g female pied sells for $3000, because I've seen several posted at that price...but, the simple fact is that those same animals have been up for a month, and I doubt the sellers have been offered anything close. THEN, especially with current year babies, there is the degree of competition. IMO, your asking price is probably toward the high end for mojave females at this time. Does that mean you shouldn't ask that price? No. Absolutely not. But be aware that other people are posting females as low as $225 shipped (I just looked). The norm seems to be closer to 275-300 shipped. Of course, once you review all the prices, and post your animals at what you feel is a competitive price, somebody is going to come along and post lower prices because they want to sell their animals and lower pricing gets attention. It's sad, in a way; but for a large part of the customer base, price is the factor that drives a sale. The percentage of people that have specific wants, and are willing to pay more for them is disappointingly small.

Shipping is another issue. You are in a similar position to me, geographically - we're at opposite ends of the country, but we're both in areas that put us at a good distance from many of our potential customers. You might want to look at SYR, to see if you can reduce your shipping rates - or maybe you can use a smaller box size - because if you're looking at $70 to ship a baby BP, you aren't being competitive. It sucks to say it, but you might have to eat a little of that if you want to move your animals - whether you consider it lowering the bottom line on your animals, or not breaking even on shipping (which can be hard to do - I've had people try to charge me $20 for the box, on top of shipping, because that's what it cost them to get the shipping box (including its shipping cost). I've also had people try to charge me $100 for shipping...and when I checked, I found I could ship an appropriate sized box to them for $65).

On top of what Harald posted:

Relative unknowns can hardly expect to compete with other better known breeders. Most customers (if they are going to pay market price) would usually prefer to go with a known breeder than risk money on a newer breeder.

As much as it is ignored, a strategy of lowering prices till one makes a name makes more sense to me than trying to charge market price.

Of course, with this strategy one can expect to come under fire from the breeders that are protecting their breeding interests.

But HEY.... nothing is ever easy...

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

As much as it is ignored, a strategy of lowering prices till one makes a name makes more sense to me than trying to charge market price.

The problem with that is the name you make is one for selling below market....and, when enough people are charging below market price, market price becomes lower. It's the nature of the beast, and simple definition.

Originally Posted by Ronda63

Why do people feel it necessary to offer you so much less than you are asking for a snake!?! Seriously....$250 shipped for a Mojave female that is over 200 gm? It is people like this that ruin our hobby. If you can't afford close to the asking price, be respectful and just don't respond. It is insulting and irritating as heck!! We work hard to breed, feed, and maintain our snakes and a low-ball offer is the ultimate insult. Often it seems to be the newbies who feel it necessary to low-ball. They obviously haven't taken the time to raise and care for a snake and have not learned just how much time, love, and attention it has taken to get the snake to where it is. I really wish the "buy cheap, sell cheap" people would just go away!!! Our hobby would be so much better off without them.

Newbies do not feel the need to make lowball offers, they simply do not know what "market price" is, because they are actually in this for a hobby.

They are not what is ruining the hobby either, and the hobby is not better off without them.
They may develope a love and passion for these animals, and share it within their circle of influence, bringing even more newbies into the hobby, and passing it on to the next generation.

You are not talking about the hobby though, you are talking about the industry.
It is not the newbies making lowball offers that is hurting the industry either.
It is the "breeders."

There are way too many breeders (I could end this sentence right here,) that do not practice selective breeding, and then sell their ugly offspring to the newbies encouraging them to breed them in order to make their "investment" back.

The animals are mass produced, over and above what the demand for them is, and everybody is left competing for the sales which lowers your "market value."

Originally Posted by hhmoore

You can spend weeks researching advertised prices

I learned something interesting about bamboo one time. some bamboo will flower in synchrony- they don't have to look up the time on the internet, or research, they just know. So sometimes, a certain species of bamboo all over the world will flower at the same time.

It sounds like sometimes, price takes a lot of thought. Maybe less experienced buyers are not familiar with the complexity of the price dance, they may just want a pretty snake and perhaps have seen lower prices and are just asking. You might expect them to be like bamboo and just know what to offer, but often they do not.

Or maybe they are using the shotgun approach that many men use with women, if you ask enough of them, one might say yes.

I can't see that a short, courteous 'no' is going to burden any seller that much, or even a non response if you are so inclined.

Originally Posted by RJK890

Newbies do not feel the need to make lowball offers, they simply do not know what "market price" is, because they are actually in this for a hobby.

They are not what is ruining the hobby either, and the hobby is not better off without them.
They may develope a love and passion for these animals, and share it within their circle of influence, bringing even more newbies into the hobby, and passing it on to the next generation.

You are not talking about the hobby though, you are talking about the industry.
It is not the newbies making lowball offers that is hurting the industry either.
It is the "breeders."

There are way too many breeders (I could end this sentence right here,) that do not practice selective breeding, and then sell their ugly offspring to the newbies encouraging them to breed them in order to make their "investment" back.

The animals are mass produced, over and above what the demand for them is, and everybody is left competing for the sales which lowers your "market value."

I think you misunderstood my statement. I was not saying newbies are ruining the hobby. I am still a newbie myself and will probably continue to be for quite some time. I was stating that low-ballers are a nuisance and I wish they would go away. As far as my statement regarding newbies making the low offers, that was a little too generalized. I should have stated "the last several low offers I have received have come from people who are new to this site."

It's probably more likely to happen during recessions too. Plus, there's tons of tv crap about getting more for less, American Pickers, Auction Kings, etc. Those who lowball might even get lucky sometimes, which is probably what they are hoping for in the first place, that the seller is desperate and they can get a good deal. Of course there are also the r-tards who simply don't understand or know enough and weren't inspired by lack of funds or tv

This would make a good Sociology topic!

Originally Posted by hhmoore

Being offered $250, shipped, for a snake advertised at $350, shipped isn't all that horrible, once you've been doing this for a while. Don't get me wrong - it's nearly a 30% reduction, and I would decline the offer...but I get offered prices that are 40-60% less than my asking price too frequently (and I don't inflate my prices to allow for negotiation).

I do understand your point; but when you break down the offer like that in an attempt to show how bad it is, well....crap, I don't know how to put it. Look at it this way. You broke that offer down to $170-180 - which on the face of things looks pretty bad for a $350 asking price. However, break your asking price down the same way, with the same shipping, and a slightly higher paypal fee - say $10-12 (you overestimated, so I went with comparable numbers) - your asking price is only $270-280. (The net result is the same as before the breakdown...I think your displeasure with the offer just drove you to see it in the worst light)

I'll admit that I'm not aware of "current" or "market" pricing on mojave females; BUT, at 200g, she's still a baby - not really to the point where you would expect to get more money for her. It's nice in theory, but that isn't how it works. You might be basing some of your thoughts on the erroneous belief that subadults and adults actually sell for some of the crazy prices you see posted. A few might, especially if there is something extra nice about them, but most will get knocked down hard if the seller wants them to move.

Dealing with pricing is tough. You can spend weeks researching advertised prices before you post your animals, and go in at what you think is fair based on what you have seen...but how accurate a reflection does that give you? I could look at the classifieds right now and say that a 1400-1800g female pied sells for $3000, because I've seen several posted at that price...but, the simple fact is that those same animals have been up for a month, and I doubt the sellers have been offered anything close. THEN, especially with current year babies, there is the degree of competition. IMO, your asking price is probably toward the high end for mojave females at this time. Does that mean you shouldn't ask that price? No. Absolutely not. But be aware that other people are posting females as low as $225 shipped (I just looked). The norm seems to be closer to 275-300 shipped. Of course, once you review all the prices, and post your animals at what you feel is a competitive price, somebody is going to come along and post lower prices because they want to sell their animals and lower pricing gets attention. It's sad, in a way; but for a large part of the customer base, price is the factor that drives a sale. The percentage of people that have specific wants, and are willing to pay more for them is disappointingly small.

Shipping is another issue. You are in a similar position to me, geographically - we're at opposite ends of the country, but we're both in areas that put us at a good distance from many of our potential customers. You might want to look at SYR, to see if you can reduce your shipping rates - or maybe you can use a smaller box size - because if you're looking at $70 to ship a baby BP, you aren't being competitive. It sucks to say it, but you might have to eat a little of that if you want to move your animals - whether you consider it lowering the bottom line on your animals, or not breaking even on shipping (which can be hard to do - I've had people try to charge me $20 for the box, on top of shipping, because that's what it cost them to get the shipping box (including its shipping cost). I've also had people try to charge me $100 for shipping...and when I checked, I found I could ship an appropriate sized box to them for $65).

You make some very valid points. I do agree that my female is at the upper limits of pricing. I know it will take the right person who likes her look to purchase her at or near my asking price. And yes, there are other mojave females similar to mine that are a lot less and within the offer that I was given. So...why does a person not select that one rather than ask for a much lower price on one that is priced higher? There are many snakes that I would love to have, but if it is currently out of my price range then I place it on my "someday list" and move on, I certainly don't ask that person to lower their price to meet my budget. Maybe I am in the minority here, but I would think most people would feel the same way.

supply and demand... the person who received the low offer can ignore or simply reply 'no thanks'. Do I wish there was more 'standard market pricing'... sure! but that's just not the way it works in this hobby..

I've had offers made that caused me to laugh or roll my eyes. I also recently made a 'lowball' offer to someone... ad marked 'make an offer, any offer' so I did. I felt quite bad about my offer and said 'I hope this doesn't offend you but it is worth a shot...' he had every right to just ignore me or tell me to go kick rocks. Turns out I was the only one that had made a legit offer in the months the ad was up plus I had cash on hand so I ended up with a deal.

My pet peeve is someone who low-balls and then also wants to make payment plans. If you're gonna make a low offer, be prepared to pay right then in full.


I don't know, I guess I don't really have a point besides:
It takes two people to make a deal.