Fl.International Reptile Show?

Ok, let me try something here. Bet I get the usual flack from the usual directions but I would like to try none the less. Please fire away with the Karma points when I am done.<p>
I am more and more concerned with the glee many of you have over the failure of a show promoter. I know, I MUST be a Tony supporter coming out of the wood work finally! Quick, get the swords out! Far from it. Many have asked on here "where are the defenders now?". Eric is right and is using his head. Tony has not had a defensible position for some time now. Why join a fight when there isn't one? With whom shall I fight? Why? I am busy, aren't you? I too have had a couple of lies thrown my way, had my name used on a website as a vendor when I had no plan of attending but raising a stink will only draw this problem out when evolution is doing just fine on its own. In my last lengthy diatribe I suggested it would work itself out and it would seem to be doing just fine without my constant typing. Others will fall prey to the show evolutionary process before it is over. Then it will all start over again. Overdoing a beating will only serve to give the opponent a reason to fight on with the cause. If the cause is expensive and dead, why continue unless your ego has been beaten so badly you must? Besides-plenty of others are doing a very good job already and after the last two weeks it looks like your opponent may just finally fizzle out. While it is deserved, we should reserve our glee. It may also point out a possible greater illness. A lot of resources, both good and misguided, have been poured into the south east for shows of late. Very few, regardless of promoter have been resounding successes. In SC recently I saw a decently organized and executed show with a decent door and hardly a dollar was spent by the public. A petting zoo without the zoo. I do not fault the promoters but they will have to try harder to get me there again. The only one I have that I can point to is Alex's recent Tampa show. Everyone I have talked to has said it was great in all regards and I am sorry I had other commitments and missed it. That's right, it had nothing at all to do with any of this. I have not seen anyone on here ask (though none of our business) whether it was a success for the promoter. You know, the guy who sports $20K+ to give you the forum to sell your animals/wares. While all of your happy comments should be a reward in its own right that kind of money is a tough nut to crack. You need a super strong door. I hope that Alex got it. Pretty busy or even very busy just ain't gonna get it. With the shows I have attended I see more and more apathy on the part of the consumer. I have done financially very well at many of these shows but did not leave with a very strong "show feeling" like I used to get. As examples I would use Raleigh and Daytona. Daytona hasn't been up to its usual levels since a year or so "pre hurricane". I did very well at that show in 2005 but attendance and "mystique" is on the down slope, not the up. I want up. That will ensure it will be there 5+ years down the road when I am older and greyer and that the business is continuing to grow. Now I expect many would say Raleigh is not up to its prior greatness because the evil monster beat it down. Maybe. Alex did a great job last time. I couldn't be happier. I hope he made a great profit on it but I doubt it was all that great especially when weighed against the level of work and hours put in. The door was decent but far from overwhelming like it once was. I hope I am wrong and I hope for Alex that the crowd this weekend is overwhelming. Anybody thinking about that or just what Tony has done to you lately? <p>Seems the internet is thriving. I sell a bunch of goodies both live and dry there. More than I do at shows. More and more it is going to be up to us as vendors to give the public a reason to come to a show, any show, to look and buy if you want to rely on shows as a source of income for very much longer. Travel to and from shows for both vendor and customer is getting higher and higher and will continue to do so. I look to shows more and more as a break even advertising gig to meet those I already know on the net (Hmmmmmmm. ) and they work well for that so I do them. Why should I as a customer drive to a show to buy a chameleon from Audrey when I can email her and get a nice one sent to me for less than the gas money? The reason is I get to pick it out. I get to touch and feel first. I know she will send me a nice one but I want to see it first. Play the big negotiator, etc. It used to be a no brainer, go to the show. Now the scales are getting a lot closer to even. But lets say I don't know her and read about how show promoters are crooks, etc on here repeatedly and in a dozen threads-why would I go to the show? I think the moderator asked a good question in a new thread the other day and immediately, like as in before he got done typing, out came the swords. Believe me, we can all find the thread on this topic without enveloping every thread into it. If I do know her why not save the travel expense? The internet and websites such as this one have made it a much smaller community. She is nice and people like her critters why not save some time and gas and watch the game and drink a beer this weekend. <p>Not all of you have merchant accounts, shopping carts, etc on the web and rely on shows as a primary means to sell your goods. It is a hazardous thing to bad mouth, repeatedly, anything regarding any show. That doesn't mean you support it, just you are using some level of moderation. The public doesn't always differentiate between promoters, most of the time they don't even know who they are or could care less. They went to a show and it sucked. They are out $100 for gas, food, admission and they are pissed. I wasn't there (Anderson), have no financial stake at all and I am very disappointed to hear that. As one viewer in this thread pointed out it will be a chore getting the other half to attend another show. I can only imagine how hard if he reads how anxious we are to go to war against our own and drag this around for weeks at a time? Why shouldn't they just put their finite resources into shopping on line and save all the B.S? Well? <p>It looks as if the free market evolutionary process has taken its course. If it hasn't it likely will soon. For those worried about the public knowing all about this saga and are so quick to pull out their swords I think the public has more than enough to go on here already. I would suggest that maybe all the energy/time being expended for sword rattling would be better aimed at praise for the good reasons to go to a show and then follow through at the show. Or are some of you just in it to see your name in print?

Rich,
I'm sure you are probably making an excellent point somewhere in there, but without a single paragraph break, there are few people (myself included) who will bother to read it.

Please try to break things up a bit.

Apparently I can not use the <p> to make a paragraph. Sorry about that. Disregard it all if you like.

Originally Posted by Mike Greathouse

Rich,
I'm sure you are probably making an excellent point somewhere in there, but without a single paragraph break, there are few people (myself included) who will bother to read it.

Please try to break things up a bit.

Thank you so much, Mike.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves on the Internet. Type is small. Paragraphs were invented by brilliant men a long time ago in order to save our eyes. It doesn't matter how insightful a post is, if it is too hard to read no one will ever know.

Ok, let me try something here. Bet I get the usual flack from the usual directions but I would like to try none the less. Please fire away with the Karma points when I am done.

I am more and more concerned with the glee many of you have over the failure of a show promoter. I know, I MUST be a Tony supporter coming out of the wood work finally! Quick, get the swords out! Far from it. Many have asked on here "where are the defenders now?". Eric is right and is using his head. Tony has not had a defensible position for some time now. Why join a fight when there isn't one? With whom shall I fight? Why? I am busy, aren't you? I too have had a couple of lies thrown my way, had my name used on a website as a vendor when I had no plan of attending but raising a stink will only draw this problem out when evolution is doing just fine on its own. In my last lengthy diatribe I suggested it would work itself out and it would seem to be doing just fine without my constant typing. Others will fall prey to the show evolutionary process before it is over. Then it will all start over again. Overdoing a beating will only serve to give the opponent a reason to fight on with the cause. If the cause is expensive and dead, why continue unless your ego has been beaten so badly you must? Besides-plenty of others are doing a very good job already and after the last two weeks it looks like your opponent may just finally fizzle out.

While it is deserved, we should reserve our glee. It may also point out a possible greater illness. A lot of resources, both good and misguided, have been poured into the south east for shows of late. Very few, regardless of promoter have been resounding successes. In SC recently I saw a decently organized and executed show with a decent door and hardly a dollar was spent by the public. A petting zoo without the zoo. I do not fault the promoters but they will have to try harder to get me there again. The only one I have that I can point to is Alex's recent Tampa show. Everyone I have talked to has said it was great in all regards and I am sorry I had other commitments and missed it. That's right, it had nothing at all to do with any of this. I have not seen anyone on here ask (though none of our business) whether it was a success for the promoter. You know, the guy who sports $20K+ to give you the forum to sell your animals/wares. While all of your happy comments should be a reward in its own right that kind of money is a tough nut to crack. You need a super strong door. I hope that Alex got it. Pretty busy or even very busy just ain't gonna get it. With the shows I have attended I see more and more apathy on the part of the consumer. I have done financially very well at many of these shows but did not leave with a very strong "show feeling" like I used to get. As examples I would use Raleigh and Daytona. Daytona hasn't been up to its usual levels since a year or so "pre hurricane". I did very well at that show in 2005 but attendance and "mystique" is on the down slope, not the up. I want up. That will ensure it will be there 5+ years down the road when I am older and greyer and that the business is continuing to grow.

Now I expect many would say Raleigh is not up to its prior greatness because the evil monster beat it down. Maybe. Alex did a great job last time. I couldn't be happier. I hope he made a great profit on it but I doubt it was all that great especially when weighed against the level of work and hours put in. The door was decent but far from overwhelming like it once was. I hope I am wrong and I hope for Alex that the crowd this weekend is overwhelming. Anybody thinking about that or just what Tony has done to you lately?

Seems the internet is thriving. I sell a bunch of goodies both live and dry there. More than I do at shows. More and more it is going to be up to us as vendors to give the public a reason to come to a show, any show, to look and buy if you want to rely on shows as a source of income for very much longer. Travel to and from shows for both vendor and customer is getting higher and higher and will continue to do so. I look to shows more and more as a break even advertising gig to meet those I already know on the net (Hmmmmmmm. ) and they work well for that so I do them.

Why should I as a customer drive to a show to buy a chameleon from Audrey when I can email her and get a nice one sent to me for less than the gas money? The reason is I get to pick it out. I get to touch and feel first. I know she will send me a nice one but I want to see it first. Play the big negotiator, etc. It used to be a no brainer, go to the show. Now the scales are getting a lot closer to even. But lets say I don't know her and read about how show promoters are crooks, etc on here repeatedly and in a dozen threads-why would I go to the show?

I think the moderator asked a good question in a new thread the other day and immediately, like as in before he got done typing, out came the swords. Believe me, we can all find the thread on this topic without enveloping every thread into it. If I do know her why not save the travel expense? The internet and websites such as this one have made it a much smaller community. She is nice and people like her critters why not save some time and gas and watch the game and drink a beer this weekend. <

Not all of you have merchant accounts, shopping carts, etc on the web and rely on shows as a primary means to sell your goods. It is a hazardous thing to bad mouth, repeatedly, anything regarding any show. That doesn't mean you support it, just you are using some level of moderation. The public doesn't always differentiate between promoters, most of the time they don't even know who they are or could care less. They went to a show and it sucked. They are out $100 for gas, food, admission and they are pissed. I wasn't there (Anderson), have no financial stake at all and I am very disappointed to hear that. As one viewer in this thread pointed out it will be a chore getting the other half to attend another show. I can only imagine how hard if he reads how anxious we are to go to war against our own and drag this around for weeks at a time? Why shouldn't they just put their finite resources into shopping on line and save all the B.S? Well? <

It looks as if the free market evolutionary process has taken its course. If it hasn't it likely will soon. For those worried about the public knowing all about this saga and are so quick to pull out their swords I think the public has more than enough to go on here already. I would suggest that maybe all the energy/time being expended for sword rattling would be better aimed at praise for the good reasons to go to a show and then follow through at the show. Or are some of you just in it to see your name in print?

wow....what a pack of ungrateful children!

a huge post, filled with ......common sense!! and you won't even bother to read it cause there isn't a paragraph break

rich......fantastic post!!! unfortunately the sense you make in it will be wasted on the majority of folks reading this thread. glad to see you put in paragraphs to stop the whining.

the only reason i posted this is cause i like to see my name on forums!!!!!!!!

I took the time to read it without the breaks.
Trust me, I take no glee in Tony's failure.
While I'm sure some folks do I would rather have not seen it all come to this.
I spent 2 years trying to broker a peace between those guys.
I saw the ugly too close and first hand.
I hope none of you think this makes me happy.
If I feel anything it's a bit justified that what I've said and done was indeed "the right thing to do"

Trust me when I say his attacks came to me long before I wrote one word here.
I have no sword to point toward you, Rich.
You've said what you felt. We are not intolerant to other opinions on this matter.
You must understand, however, that when a person has abused you long enough you reach a breaking point. I believe that's what this thread represents. Many of us put up with stuff for years just hoping things would improve. Any comments to Tony were treated as attacks.
This is a damn breaking here. What you are witness to is a group of folks that have held it in for too long.

Perhaps it does look like a gloat. I feel no victory here.
I've supported the man for years with my money and plenty of free help when he needed it.
You see, Rich. Many of us feel betrayed and that just tastes so bad in our mouths we're just looking for something to clear the taste buds.
I hope this makes some amount of sense to you.
Take Care,
Gino

Originally Posted by 2amcreations

wow....what a pack of ungrateful children!

a huge post, filled with ......common sense!! and you won't even bother to read it cause there isn't a paragraph break

rich......fantastic post!!! unfortunately the sense you make in it will be wasted on the majority of folks reading this thread. glad to see you put in paragraphs to stop the whining.

the only reason i posted this is cause i like to see my name on forums!!!!!!!!

Is it too much to ask for the common courtesy of punctuation?
As evidenced by Rich's response, it was his original intention to include it.

I agree, it is an excellent post. My point, that seems to have been missed by some, was that many would not read it because of the simple difficulty in doing so.

ok so I'm new here & will probably tick quite a few people off, If I do then I'm sorry but I feel as if I need to say something!!!!!
I've read 28 pages of post,(not to mention the one's on other threads), WE GET THE POINT!!!!!!Tony has apparently gotten what he deserved!!! To those of you who has been wronged by him, if I were you I'd have gloat to!!!
What most of you do not seem to realize is that this BS should stop!!!!
Rich your original post had so many truths to the fact that this bickering has destroyed alot of newbie's!!!!!!!
My husband will never go to another show! As far as he's concerned he could now do without the "reptile" community & the reptiles too "if that's the way the people are in the reptile world I just as soon not have any reptiles of anykind if I have to buisness with people like this"! You guys don't seem to understand that this is'nt just about getting the truth out to alot of you....its been all about revenge!!!
did you get the revenge you seeked???
In case you did not notice there's quite a few of us that now has been turned away from the reptile community because of all this!!!
Yes tony's show sucked, yes I lost $$$ just going there!!
you want to know what the worst part of it is.....
I wouldn't hardly speak to any of the vendor's because I didn't know who was good or who was bad!!
you see, you did exactly what you wanted to do..the only problem with that is that you also went so overboard with it that I now have no use for the shows period!!!!!
If I can't get it at the local pet store then I just won't get it!!!
I'm sorry but some of us need to GROW UP!!!!
Tony was conquered & destroyed..now some of you have to find something else to fuss about LIKE PUNCUATION (well now you can fuss about mine & my spelling!)
PLEASE START ANOTHER POST & LET ME KNOW WHO CAN TALK ABOUT REPTILES....
WHO CAN NOT BE SUCH A #$$ THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO #$%*ABOUT!!!!
I'm sorry but it's time to get over this because it's gone WAY beyond "warning people about Tony" to totally doing your damnest to destroy the REPTILE INDUSTRY & the saddest part of that to me is that you are so blinded by your anger you don't even see what your doing!
Rich you have a way with words that I don't have , I know not if your trustworthy any more than you know if I am ...BUT i admire you for trying to make people understand that enough is enough!! I didnt that your post that was "sticking up" for anyone,all I saw was someone who was sticking up for the REPTILE INDUSTRY!!!

Cocheta, on the next thread over you posted this:

"Now I understand what everone has been talking about!!!! This was the 1st reptile show I have ever been too & I must say it was a HUGE let down!!!!!!
Even though I wasn't expecting it to be spectacular,due to the things I've previously read, I did think that it would be worth the time & effort to go.with gas prices being so high i must say that I am alittle p.o. the whole time I was there i was thinking FAUNA.....YOU TOLD ME SO!!!!

Did you have another change of heart?

Believe me it's the bad shows that hurt our industry not those of us trying to warn the unsuspecting public.
By your logic every time a person reports a Bad Guy thread because of a bad transaction he is hurting the business because newbees see us ganging up on a bad guy.
To the point it will mean they will likely have a better first experience because thanks to this forum they will deal with a quality breeder.
That helps our industry it does not harm it.
Trying to warn you about one show over another only means you have a better chance of enjoying your experience.
I think you proved that one yourself. Or am I mistaken?
Their are still tons of great shows out there as I'm sure you'll find out.
By the way most of us did not rail about the punctuation.
Gino