The Columbus Reptile show was Raided by Fish&wildlife officers

Look around the world. Freedom is the exception, not the rule. If you give up your freedom, they will gladly take it from you. And every little encroachment will be for the "good of the majority".

I totally agree Webslave the only thing I would state different is you last phrase... it should read "good of the perceived majority".

I have to admitt i do not get on these boards very offten but i have to say i have a big case of the red a$$ myself,and you all are right! Its going to get to the point we cant keep anything other then a cat or dog.What i would like to know is how in the hell are we going to fight this? I have friends that set up at the shows and they are good people as im sure you all are. What can we do and how can we stop this??? I know i work my tail off to take care of my reptiles breeding, saleing, and tradeing maybe i do bend a rule or two here and there but ive been doing this for 15 years!! Now DNR (fish&game) is going to tell me the only way i can keep herps is if i pay them!!..Excuese me sir but think i have paid you,,the food on your table, the car you drive, the neat little uniform and the rest of the cock and bull the DNR uses aginst us!
I tell ya people id sell my herps to the devil him self before i will pay to keep a herp! Right or wrong i just cant see letting them beat us, and i know there is enough fellow herpers out there to back us up! Lets beat em somehow!
Jason
(Understone's reptiles)

Its going to get to the point we cant keep anything other then a cat or dog.

well, certain types of dogs anyway.

I tell ya people id sell my herps to the devil him self before i will pay to keep a herp

Interesting perspective, I wonder how many would do the same (well maybe not the devil part) I tend to agree with you, problem is you'd have to get rid of them fast because if they ever did implement a pay permit system you'd see a ton of animals on the market. You'd also see a ton of euthenizations as people just dumped their animals wherever they could.

My problem, like any addiction, if I got rid of everything, could I stay away?

Steve Schindler

http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=1307

This link has diffrent state laws on it maybe worth takeing a look at. I may have a few more as the night goes on.

I'd rather see the trade regulated by a permiting system with controls than the alternative. NO HERPS ALLOWED UNDER ANY CONDITIONS!!! I agree that the laws are unclear, in some cases unfounded and many times put foward by people who never leave an office or step foot on grass. Much less ever been to a trade show. It's always human nature to look at the negatives first. When these laws are proposed it's up to EVERYONE to get involved. If it's a law that they are determined to go through with then we should work with them to make it practical, reasonable
and CLEAR. Anytime that any herp is completely protected it does the species more damage. They talk about the commercial aspect of it!!!!!! They are creating the black market that makes a 10.00 animal a 1,000.00 animal!!! Allow limited trade in any species and that species will never be extinct! It sounds bad but that the truth of the matter! I'd rather tell them ok.... i'll pay your fee and provide documentation as long as i'm still allowed to work with those species. Don't get me wrong! I'm not on the side of most lawmakers or enforcement agencies! PIT tagging every specimen....??? Especially small species ABSURD! The idea of not allowing captive breeding if the species is native to the state... What good does this do. Where would they turn to if something disasterous did happen to the wild populations! Are there any endangered species breeding programs operated by the state or government for herps? NO! They won't admit to it but, many of these laws are NOT helping the species survival! Another thing!!!!
Ducks Unlimited is allowed to fund purchases of land for the survival of waterfowl. Government agencies work with them for species management. They determine bag limits and permit fees for KILLING of the waterfowl! Do you think that if the herpers in Ohio were to get together and buy say a thousand acres of land for management of herps that they would permit limited collecting of LIVE non-threatened or non- endangered herps?? I doubt it!! Keep in mind these are the same federal agencies that would allow me to import PARTS(Heads, tails, skins. legs, meat etc.) of Yacare , Brown Caimans or Morlet's Crocodiles but, no live ones? Yeah that helps the species survival! Before I get too far off subject.... My 2 cents! Ray

Brett Nelson

Heres Brett Nelsons email for those who would like to have his info.


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Originally posted by herpetological
PIT tagging every specimen....??? Especially small species ABSURD!

With a 12 gauge needle at that! I can't see many 18 inch ribbon snakes or other small bodied snakes surviving this well
(my Vet. refuses to do it)

Originally posted by pacrat
http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=1307

This link has diffrent state laws on it maybe worth takeing a look at. I may have a few more as the night goes on.

I belive the regulations on this site are out of date. also on the main page it states "On the federal level, all persons breeding these animals are required to obtain a breeder's license pursuant to the federal Animal Welfare Act. Note: This summary lists all laws relating to breeding in the individual states and is a complete list of animals covered under the laws"

this is not true I have talked to APHIS USFWS and USDA and all reptiles are exempt from regulation under the Animal Welfare Act. The only federal laws that apply to herps are for those listed on the Threatened and endangered species act. http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/TESS...V&listings=0#C . And for interstate or international commerce and/or transport of CITES listed animals http://www.cites.org/ .