Cut throat TT debate (not for the weak of heart!)

Brian, you look funny

did anyone do anything special or pick certain geckos to breed thinking they would get something.

Yes. and Yes.

I think he was talking of mutated morphs just randomly popping up.

I think he was talking of mutated morphs just randomly popping up.

Yea, I got that idea from it too.


But how often does that actually happen? Sure its something you hope for, and would be luck, but working with Hets, or even linebreds, to make morphs with existing traits, is hard work. Traits in plants, and animals, dont always progress, there is such a thing as 'genetic drift'.

I just dont think the majority or breeders are waiting to 'win the lottery' by having a random mutation pop-up. They are working with what is allready there.

Thats why I answered it the other way, at least. A little luck does come into play, but there is still selective breeding going on.

I know Marcia has worked for years on her awesome Patternless-line. She even managed to work out the kinks, by selecting and outcrossing.

Im only in my second year breeding, and fourth year keeping, ( have kept herps for many years, just not many Leos until more recently)but you can bet Im outbreeding and trying to improve anything we`re working with. Even working on making something completely different.

Ok this is getting long so only one more point... Ron Tremper got lucky by getting the first Wild Type Albino. But has it been luck, to take it this far?

Those Albinos Ron has now do not even resemble the original ones. That orange color didnt just fall from the sky. LOL

Originally Posted by WindyO

Tom would you say that a TT is the best that a breeder has to offer in the SHT line? How about that this is your version of a TT? So if you think TT's are a marketing ploy does that mean this is your attempt at a marketing?I just think it is deceitful to call it a TT when you know it isn't from that line. I am not bragging or putting you down by this but i bought a female that looks like that from the local reptile swap for $50. Honest to God truth. In fact i have gotten several of that caliber for $50 each. This isn't by any means a extreme animal.

jesus for gods sake and all of the above. i do have a fuse. everyone does. ok so its not a TT. ok i couldn't give a geckos scaly rear about the name. i know what it is as does just about everyone else on here. Its a SHTCT gecko. simple as that. calling it anything els eother than that is like calling a perso na dog. just not possible. perhaps your tremper book hasnt taught you enough about phenotypes and genes. give kelli a call or have her give you a call. talk to any of the breeders on here about it. ill bet youll get a better understanding of what the whole orange line is. SHT CT and all of those. mines not a TT. ill accept that. thats as far as it goes. i certaintly wouldnt put it on parr with all of Dan L.'s other geckos or alot of these breeders but buddy seriously. its a good gecko. you sitting here and insulting it any capacity will not be tolerated by me in any way shape or form.

Tom, it is a lovely gecko, and that fact has been overshadowed by this debate. You have a great animal from great bloodlines, don't worry about the label. If it were my gecko and this same debate had happened, I would have to name it "Tornado". Good luck with the gecko and your 06 season.

than kyou kelli. i wasn't trying to make a point about the label. id call it a orange orgasm(again sorry for the steal) if i wanted. names arent al lthat important. correct morph names however are and the only thing that really managed to get under my skin was the list numbered 1-4 on what it was and wasn't. is tangerine and is carrot-tail. thanks to all supporters of "Kelli's Tornado" aka "My Edge". i got a kind pm and several said they like dit and thats enough for me. wait no its not, me liking it is enough for me.(LOLOLOL)