Carrot Tails

if i remember correctly , all of the color-morphs were selectively bred starting from the normal and high-yellow morph (if u wanna call it that ) selectively bred "normal" into hi-yellow guess what came from high yellow ? lol tangerines hypos and carrottails ! so to say that any of these "bloodlines" are unrelated by any means is just wishfull thinking ! i understand if someone say these are true -CT `s , because that is what that line selectively bred for (more CT and less spotting) thats fine !! but to say they are soooo different bloodwise ....just sounds silly ! we all know that all colors, patterns, and even the albinos cropped up from "normal" or wild caught colonies and that the fact is all of our geckos are related in some way !

How can you tell if a Leo has Ray Hines blood in it?

Well, they just have a certain look to them... Now granted even some of the animals I produce from Ray Hine line carrot tails I do not classify as a "carrot tail".. Example-
carrot tail-


non carrot tail (in this case a hypo tang)-


Now while both of those geckos have the same dad (he was a SHTCT), the second one I would not classify as a carrot tail. Why? It has spotting on the body and all the way up to the tail base. I guess Jeanne it would have to be up to each individual breeder to classify their geckos! You know the bloodline of yout geckos better than us..however even if the particular gecko in question DID have Hine blood in it, I would not classify it as a hypo carrot tail, just my opinion. I am certainly not the be all/end all when it comes to this stuff, but seem to know a little more about it than most.

if i remember correctly , all of the color-morphs were selectively bred starting from the normal and high-yellow morph

You remember incorrectly.

guess what came from high yellow ? lol tangerines hypos and carrottails

Sorry Dan but that's wrong. Hypo Carrot Tails originated from Ray Hine in the UK, and his adults originated from a poulation of wild hypos/super hypos. They are a distinct bloodline, different from the selectively bred tangerines and hypo tangerines.

so to say that any of these "bloodlines" are unrelated by any means is just wishfull thinking

Wrong again. See above.

but to say they are soooo different bloodwise ....just sounds silly ! we all know that all colors, patterns, and even the albinos cropped up from "normal" or wild caught colonies

Yeah, the carrot tails did come from wild caught adults.. however they are a relatively new bloodline. I cannot remember off the top of my head what year it was that Hine imported those adults but it hasn't been very long ago...maybe the late 1990's.

Do some research on it, email Ray Hine if you would like to Dan. Maybe you could give a little credit to me, that I actually may know what I am talking about on this stuff..LOL. I mean I just posted pics in an earlier post of my first hypo carrot tails that I got in 2001..I think I know the history of the bloodline pretty well.

Thanks for the clarification Kelli. I will take the carrot tail label of of her, what you said makes sense to me.


Thanks to everyone else who helped answering my dilema!

not trying to take away from what you have stated and im sure u know exactly what you are talking about ! my point is .... it is not like each bloodline is from a different population ,all are related to wild caught geckos ,and are much more related than everyone thinks ! hines wild caught were no different than anyone elses WC `s that produced hi-yellow or tangerine or any of the albinos ! the fact that everyone liked/chose a different appearance/color to "selectively" breed for originally (to me) does not mean they are unrelated ! someone else took animals kin to hines (and all the rest) and selectively bred for color that showed up in the "normals" and are now known as all of these different "morphs" ! ray hine (im pretty sure ) was not the only person that went after that appearance ! if so why do all of these "tangerines" have so much orange in the tail ?

Thanks for the clarification Kelli. I will take the carrot tail label of of her, what you said makes sense to me.

Your welcome Jeanne, I'm glad it made sense to someone!

it is not like each bloodline is from a different population ,all are related to wild caught geckos ,and are much more related than everyone thinks ! hines wild caught were no different than anyone elses WC `s that produced hi-yellow or tangerine or any of the albinos !

No, actually the Hine line hypo carrot tails are from a completely different population than most if not all of the leopard geckos we already had here in the US. My educated guess is that they are actually a different subspecies at the least, possibly even a seperate species of Eublepharis. Do you have any hypo carrot tails in your collection Dan? If you do, look at them, and compare them to a non Ray Hine line tangerine or to a non Giant albino. They are very different, from the shape of the head, to the toe structure on the feet, to the sheer size of them. Those first hypo carrot tails that came into the US from the UK were completely unrelated to anything we had here. That is how they are different from anyone elses WC's.

ray hine (im pretty sure ) was not the only person that went after that appearance !

Ray Hine was the only one to import that particular group of wild caught super hypos though. Now of course the few breeders that got them that first year they were available bred them to their own tangs and hypo tangs already in their collections. Well, if they were smart they did. So of course now what we see are usually not pure Hine animals anymore, however it is quite obvious they are from that line. You see, the Hine line of super hypo is either a dominant or co dominant gene, not exactly sure which. None theless when you breed a Hine line super hypo carrot tail to a normal, some of the offspring will be super hypo carrot tails. It is a very strong trait. Another thing differentiating them from the tangs/hypos that were here before them.

Ever seen K&N's "ghost" leos? Those are just pure Hine line super hypos, before they were crossed into tangs.

if so why do all of these "tangerines" have so much orange in the tail ?

Because breeders were working towards the goal of making their geckos prettier. In the high yellows breeders started to notice that some of them had some orange on the tail base. These breeders selectively bred their geckos until some of the orange started to creep up on the body, and it all went from there. They also bred for lack of spotting. I call the hypos (tangerine and non) that resulted from these breedings are called "selectively bred hypos".

Well, not sure how better to explain it all. I did my best!

and also reduced spotting,that the morph is known to have (aka hypo ) and i end up with some hypo babies with alot more orange in the tail than the parents ! would you call these hypo CT ? because i know for a fact , that most if not all of the different colors ,were selectively bred for from the same population of geckos and if ray hines had that potential , so did everybody elses geckos , they just went in a different direction in selection ! more accurate to say no they are not ray hine CT ! we all know these arent the only true carrottails , that would be like saying there is only one true-hypo when we know of a few other bloodlines that show the characteristic of (at least of a trait they were named after > HYPOMELANISTIC)ie: reduced spotting/banding please explain breeding tang X tang , and getting some" high-yellow" or "normal" babies ? it happens , and it just proves they are all related ,maybe not as closely anymore , but they sure are !

it is not like each bloodline is from a different population ,all are related to wild caught geckos ,and are much more related than everyone thinks ! hines wild caught were no different than anyone elses WC `s

Dan,

I am sure you realize that Leopard Geckos come from different locations - Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Northwest India. If you look at the geography of that region you'll see there are some substantial mountain ranges that will cause genetic isolation - thus different populations.

Any number of things can influence different populations and cause them to change - Mr. Darwin introduced this hypothesis a while back. So to say that each bloodline or the origin of the bloodline are all the same is completely incorrect.

Regards,

Terry

this is my earlier point (different thread) that "selective bred hypo " were only named after Hypomelanistic trait ,this dom or co-dom "hypo" is a true " hypomelanistic" guess i misunderstood to think CT was not in the same line as his hypo

just having these small pieces of info left out (subspecies etc. ) of the whole "morph-story" can make it sound completely different

did not know different location within the few countries , could make such a difference ! i would think if they are the same type , they are from the same very- big population? ( no idea ) subspecies are just animals that have adapted to different areas etc. ? over time they adapt and physical changes are made ? this is helpfull ! but how would you know a gecko is from a different population/area ? and wouldnt each group from different areas ( populations) be related to eachother ???? really dont see how they are not ! but maybe u can explain ?