DWARF Leopard Geckos???

Christina, you're quite right. It's always a judgment call. I know that cat and dog breeders of today pretty much agree that several of today's breeds would never have been developed if the mutation had occurred recently, or if we had known what other negative health aspects would arise after generations of inbreeding for certain "desirable" mutations.

*looks down at her beloved Manx knowing she's an example of one...

oh yes the manx well at least the entire litter and mother don't die if the mother doesn't have a c-section **cough**bulldogs**cough**

yeah poor girl bull dogs I couldnt believe that the first time I saw it on Animal Babies or whats the name of that show? "a dog that cant have its own babies? OMG"

but the Manx gene is as bad or worse. It is a Dominant mutation and the living Manx's you see are really only het for Manx. Manx-Manx homozygous embryos have such horribly deformed spines they ALWAYS die early in the womb. howz that for a mutation?

oh yeah...I know about the manx gene. It's actually not that they always die in womb...some are born with their spinal chord actually exposed and die shortly after birth...sounds like fun eh??... But again...at least the entire litter and mother aren't at risk if surgery isn't involved...Manx breeding just involves knowing what the genetics are...bulldog breeding almost always involves necessary surgery regardless of what you do.

lol christina, are we arguing here? i hope not. both are BAAAAAD.

NO!!!...no arguing! lol

Well, I am in a disagreeable mood today.

Any single gene genotype not wild-type is both a mutation AND defect if it would negatively affect the animals chances to survive in the wild...this makes essentially all leo morphs being bred defects.

defect - an imperfection that impairs worth or utility; a lack of something necessary for completeness, adequacy, or perfection.

mutation - a significant change or alteration; a relatively permanent change in hereditary material involving either a physical change in chromosome relations or a biological change in the codons that make up the genes.

Ok, a couple of other breeders and myself have noticed that leo's lengths seem to have gotten shorter and shorter through the past couple of years.

I have found just the opposite true. I have seen a significant change in the size of Leopard Geckos over the past 10 years, and my observation is that they are getting bigger... in length and girth. The first leos I ever saw and purchased averaged about 6-7 inches in length, and around 38-44 grams. I think with today's better understanding of Leopard Gecko husbandry and current trends in veterinary care, they are just getting bigger and more robust!

Gee, this is turning into a very compelling subject! Cool!

anyways, the real secret to the manx gene is that Manx's are part puppy dog, heheheh. at least they act like it.

Originally Posted by Golden Gate Geckos

I think with today's better understanding of Leopard Gecko husbandry and current trends in veterinary care, they are just getting bigger and more robust!

Marcia, you just made one of my points for me. bigger doesn't mean better or "robust". The trend is a large fat gecko but that doesn't mean it's healthier!

gene the change in head shape I've noticed too, when comparing my 10 year old leo to new ones bred by others. shorter wider head. dont know if it means anything. I like the older head style better tho. to me it looks more "wild" less domesticated.