Mack snows.....

I just refuse to be that cut throat and hard nosed

Kelli, Don't start selling supplies then, 'cause there's sharks in those waters There are a million ways to run a business SUCCESSFULLY. And successfully doesn't always mean $$ either. So having a differing opinion is not a bad thing.

Alex, thanks for the clarification on you position and on what is really going on.

This has been a great discussion that should at least give insight into the way people look at their business... and how others can view your actions. When doing some of the more aggressive tactics you have to remember how customers will perceive them, and many times your competitors are potential customers as well in this business.

Thanks Daniel, I really appreciate your post. And yes, I am happy to run my business the way I do. I do pretty good that way too.

Man, there is no way I could sell supplies, I am swamped year round with my geckos! It seems in my case it is more rewarding both financially and otherwise to focus on the animals.

I agree that this has been a great discussion.

The only conversations pertaining to prices between myself and purchasers were based on how long/when the values of Mack snows would come down or how long they would stay level and last but not least...how the values would carry over to double het. animals.

OK , i was offered a pair of Snows by you Alex , the only "conversation" w/ me was price and payment option , AFTER you helped me figure out i wanted the pair as opposed to my original inquiry about just a female having taken your own good advice decided against just a female and then asked about ,just a male.
we had come to an agreement upon a pair , a 5-6 mo old male and an "adult" female Snow , after my confusion w/ the different prices for different sizes was out of the way .
i call BS ,and will spare you , posting our e-mail . there was no talk of where you wanted to see this thing go .
i told you very honestly my intentions at the time were to make Giant Snows het Albino and that i was working on a very small scale as more of a hobby than anything until this 'business opportunity' came along and that would make me work on a slightly larger scale ONLY .

in a very short time became dedicated to this amazing new project and all of its potential , having THOUGHT a 'DEAL' was made , WE started investing in a few select SHTCTB , Tremper Giant, and BOLD-stripe females to breed to the male besides the Snow female . in your words 'i was not going to let them slip through my hands ' (or however it goes) and allready had taken a loan , and started 'investing' .

so my 'dishonesty' and talk about 'overproducing' 'underselling' is 'out the window ' .

the reasoning for selectively selling the Mack snows was because I personally wanted to see the Mack snows worked with in a moral and ethical fashion. I wanted breeders that were going to put in the sweat, blood, and tears to see this Morph not get wasted as we've all seen in many others. The mass producing, undercutting, "breed" only for profit and who cares about the animals mentality that many people out there have.

we have only best interest of the morph and our fellow breeders
this is not only my business but also my mothers , i would not put her (or myself) in jeopardy , nor have my intentions been to inflict any harm to the market , or to anyone that thrives from this business . i would like to be able to attend or vend a show to make contacts/sell etc . you think i would like ' herp-bully' friends of the cartel causing problems in public places etc ? (which seems to be happening) get that through that thick head of yours please ?
how can you dictate how long prices would stay level unless there is some form of control over those prices set in place ?

So the guy had a prior arrangement, didnt tell me about it knowing that a breeding loan would've been out of the question based on where and how I'd like to see this project take shape, bred the Mack male to a few females right after receiving him, turned around and sold it, shipped it within 4 days of receiving...and I'm sinking their reputations? or better yet...my ethics and morals are being questioned?

Alex for you to give people this info up front about the selection would have been fine by me , same goes for when Dan made the deal with you , but you were NOT HONEST about it .
truthfully it goes along way , and if i had known why you changed your mind , other than telling me 'i will not sell to you for you can sell "for less" " because it said that in my signature here at the the time , i would not have been half as frustrated/insulted/angered by allready having taken out a loan and buying females .
i was thrilled and took great pride in having the chance to be part of the project early on . please tell me ANYONE what would this have done to you ?
IF you had not snubbed my phone calls after telling me to call to place the order before the weekend as you were 'going out of town' , i would not have been soooo excited and impatient with your not answering , and would not have been as eager to get you on the phone . this was a thursday or friday night after you told me this , i was ready to receive them the following week like we planned . so yes i may have called quite a few times , having been told you were leaving for the week and WOULD have shipped when you returned . i appologize for this (my excitement )!
so , i never got an answer that day and guessed you were ' out of town ' , i contacted Jodi and was given the same offer , and to call YOU to place the order . thinking Jodi must have contacted you to arrange this , and being confused why you were not answering me i tried again and again . just so you know , yes i went and tried a different route (Jodi) to buy the Snows because i felt you avoided my phone call . sorry, just how you made me feel .
just like the corvette or ferrari , the dealer right down the street is just as good as any , if they dont have what you are looking for at the time .

AND HERE IS MY FAVORITE ONE

ANYONE BIG OR SMALL can get in and be the first to make those combo traits.

the same salespitch on your website . now why would i or anyone view this project as something that is not openly available to all ? you do not explain this on your website or during someones inquiry .

bred the Mack male to a few females right after receiving him, turned around and sold it, shipped it within 4 days of receiving...and I'm sinking their reputations? or better yet...my ethics and morals are being questioned?

LOL you wanna talk ethics/morals ? one word comes to mind ! >SNAKEBROKER <
is that what you are ? im not sure ....
below from your website , speaking about IMPORTED BALLS all the way from Africa , that your ethics concerning reptiles should be questioned ! huh buddy ?

>"me...I will re-hydrate them...offer 2 meals and then send them onto you within 2 weeks of arrival here or we can have them shipped within a few days of arrival after they've had a chance to re-hydrate and are offered at least 1 meal. " < end quote from website
within a few days of arrival ? IMPORTED ANIMALS NO DOUBT ! what happens if a shippment comes in 100% DEAD ? what do you do Alex ? do you call it quits , and not order again ? LOL

where do you keep those animals ? are they 100% "clean" ? do you know that for sure ? ide say no but thats just my opinion on imports!

im sure the Leopard Gecko community as a whole doesnt see the other side ! but there it is plain as day ! and now he`s Mr. Breeder ethics when it comes to Leos ? gimme a break .

before rich comes on here and closes this down because he will he has warned us all.... dan,
many people broker snakes... there are many BAD broker and a few GOOD onees, you just do not get it. its alex's business, i mean litterally he makes a living off selling reptiles. hey a couple days or a couple of weeks is ALOT more than ALOT of poeple do... try the guys that buy those balls right off the port of entry.. and then directly ship them out to petstroes because that is usually how it goes. when buying imports in groups lets say over 100 those suppliers do not gaurentee you anything just 100 balls. not hydrated not fed not wormed no live arrival because thats what 8 bucks each gets you. its the second hand good buyers that put the effort into them.
oh and a snake broker is someone who has (sometimes they are not even at the brokers facility, they are with the owner) animals that belongs to someone else and agrees to sell them for a "consignment fee".... buying ch baby balls from ghana he is just buying some lots and investing his time and money into them i am sure he has a gaurentee and will make good.


anywho that my quick statement i knew as son as i saw the title what this would end up like... i tried to stay on topic see above but this really needs to be taken to the BOI or HELL because i personally am tired of seeing it.....

webslave needs to come down here and close this thread as he did the others or inforce his warning... whatever

lubinski I offered this advise to sal tornambe just the other day and I think it fits for you too.

It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Quit your whining. No matter what tests you take you are still suspected of having lied and NOW you're trying to drag Alex down by comparing IMPORTED ball pythons to the Macks? Does the word dumbass have any special signifigance to you? If not it should.

not only that , but a personal attack against myself and Dan Lubinsky by yourself and Chris Johnson (who in no way was involved in your deal w/ Dan L.) on how -

-we, planned to double ship a gecko etc. - making it look like we have done something unethical in that respect (to hurt reputations) . it was a "need to" situation for Dan as he explained to you .
but you two just have to use less than fair methods against "the little guys" that could hardly even keep up w/ the 'group' in production .

-i,planned to overproduce this morph

-i,planned to dump prices

Chris Johnson bringing a personal e-mail about my concern for a diagnosis of ONE animal in my collection w/ amebiasis into public conversation on THIS forum .

- was blown up into accusations of 'poor husbandry' , 'not properly treating the animal' , ' being a collection wide infection in either of our colonies '

ALL TO TRY TO HARM OUR REPUTATIONS AND SMALL BUSINESSES


this just needs to be here since supposedly coming from Alex ,

I ensued the "MACK SNOW DRAMA " when it was himself and counterparts .

Thank You for reading everyone , have a blessed day .

noone lied but these two jokers (and the LAMBS took their word go figure)

wes , im am only comparing the BP "few day" turnaround to these two insinuating the Mack was "unethically planned to be shipped twice in just 5 days , etc. "

i was not about to stand for these type of statements about my ethics and morals made to the Leopard Gecko community(in this section so this does belong here ) and i will NOT now .

Originally Posted by wilomn

lubinski I offered this advise to sal tornambe just the other day and I think it fits for you too.

It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Quit your whining. No matter what tests you take you are still suspected of having lied and NOW you're trying to drag Alex down by comparing IMPORTED ball pythons to the Macks? Does the word dumbass have any special signifigance to you? If not it should.

I will leave the above because it has already been read by a few.

I will ask that it be disregaurded as I was, ONCE AGAIN, not getting someone's name right. I was thinking that DAN LUBINSKI had written the post I was responding to but it was dan poe.

Sorry Lubinski.

Once again a thread about Mack snows has been dragged off-topic. Sorry Gregg!! You tried, you really did, to start a reasonable discussion about a cool new leo morph... I was hoping to actually discuss that with everyone too.