the AMAZING (so called) 16X het

wes, i just went back and read your edit. apology accepted and thanks for clearing things up.

I used to frequently peruse Ron Tremper's designer page back when he updated it regularly. There were lots of morphs that just never seemed to catch on. I think that there was a diamond back pattern, a bandit phase, a four eyed phase etc. He also classified carrot head, red eyes (not the solid red like the raptors) as morphs. There are a ton of others that popped up over the years that I can't recall. I think that this gecko could easily be carrying the traits for 16 different morphs, as he defines them. But, I completely aggree with Kelli, when she said that you will need the right female in order for any of them to be manifested. He could be a good investment if the purchaser already has a high end female from Tremper with a similar pedigree.

If I were to plunk down $500 on a gecko, I'd want to know exactly what traits it could potentially carry. I'd also want to know what kind of female I'd need to breed it to. I'd suspect that Tremper would be more that willing to answer these questions for a serious customer. This may sound harsh, but if you buy without researching, you deserve exactly what you get. I don't think that the ad was deceptive, I just think that it raises a lot of questions.

-Alice

HEY Marcia, I think I found one of your "boys" here. Seems this one thinks HE is in charge of how people SHOULD do business. LOL

Wes, I can assure you that Chad has already been "pulled through a knothole backwards" (as my Grandmother used to say).

Ooops. Did I misstep? Was I supposed to START a pissing match here? LOL

Shucks even.

Originally Posted by KelliH

Whoa! Monte, I'm surprised at you! Would you prefer, "We are a big mega-breeder that will say or do anything for a sale, you know, whatever it takes to pay for the kids private school tuition and our annual 2 week vacation to a tropical island. And don't ask us how we care for our geckos, we are a big mega-breeder and do not have to answer to a lowly wanna be such as yourself. PS. Shop at PetSmart!"

That doesn't sound very gracious, to a man who let you look over his entire business.

And what's wrong with private school or trips? What are we anti-capitalist now?

Viva la France . . . LOL

I still say that "I'm a small breeder, which gives personal attention to each of my geckos, and gives them cute names like Zoe, Panda and Dolly . . . " makes my eyes glaze over.

Sorry, that's how I feel.

forget all these "season finales" - this is real entertainment!?

You can tell a thread is winding down when politics come into play.

Sorry about that ...

The weather was really nice today - it felt like a 16 het day . . .

I just want to comment on something repeatedly mentioned earlier in the thread that there aren't 16 recessive genes in leopard geckos.......ummm....I would find it extremely difficult to believe that there are anywhere near that SMALL of a number of recessive genes in leopard geckos! How would you explain polygenic morphs??... I know I'm picking at wording here...but that kind of thing is just something that rubs me the wrong way.

Originally Posted by diablohogs

imagine the person who bought that animal thinking he could reproduce 16 MORPHS with it. just the BUZZ WORD "MORPHS" is enough to attract somone to that animal. AND SIXTEEN?! WOW!

who cares weather or not it is fairly priced. it was 500 dollars! think of what other animal that person could have bought. furthermore would that animal have sold if it wasnt a 16X het? how well is the high yellow jungle giant market doing anyway?

i would suggest that you dont buy any morphs that arent proven out. some people out there want to call every little detail of thier animal a morph without any proof that it is a inheritable trait.

one of which was sold to me as het for JUNGLE. het for what? jungle? since when is jungle a single locus trait??

so its not like i havnt been affected by ron trempers habit of calling anything he wants a morph.

This is not the entire post, just the parts I'd like to discuss.

Got a few questions --

1. What is a morph?

2. What is a trait?

3. What is the difference between the two?

4. Is Carrot Tail a morph, or a trait?

5. Is Carrot Head a morph or a trait?

6. Is Patternless a morph or a trait?

High Yellow? Tangerine? Hypo? Super Hypo? Stripe? Jungle? Line Bred Snow? Mack Snow? Pastel? Rainbow? Tremper Albino? Rainwater Albino? Bell Albino? Leshock Albino (if it was a separate gene)? Circle Back? Jungle? Ghost? Blizzard? Red Stripe? Giant?

I think that's more than 16....but wait, you'll say "But those aren't single locus recessive mutations.....(I am a genetics dummy, so don't criticize for my incorrect usage, please).....


NOONE EVER SAID IT WAS A 16 Times HET for ANYTHING!!!!!

And as for monitoring other people's spending, I often wonder how many other cars or houses people could have bought every time I see a Ferrari or a Lamborghini pass me on the street here. It's none of my business, so I don't talk trash about the car companies. After all, they just say they're better cars.

First of all I agree with Chad on this one! Hey wait a minute I am Chad! LOL! Wow that reads strange. Anyway I usually don't butt in on this sort of thing, but this time I felt compelled. Like many other accomplished leopard gecko breeders Ron has done some absolutely awesome things with leopard geckos. Let me re-phrase that! Ron has brought to "LIGHT" some really awesome stuff involving leopard geckos. He didn't create anything that wasn't already there he just sort of came across it if you will. Which is very cool! Heck if any of us accomplishes the same we can quite possibly name the new trait after ourselves as well! This whole thing has to bring to mind the word REINVENTION! Reminds me of Artists and Actors in the entertainment field really. Thats all Ron has done with this latest ploy. I don't personally know the guy and have never met him. I'm not questioning his motives because they are clear! To make money! I think a certain disassociation takes place with those of us who truly love the animals we are working with and those who are trying to run a successful business. The leopard gecko has to be one of the toughest markets around! If you have thousands of animals and OBVIOUSLY tremendous overhead its going to call for desperate actions in the minds of some. Unfortunately rather than rest on their laurels some feel the necessity to compromise their common sense and morals in order to stay competative. Actually in most likelyhood this is probably a gross mistatment with regards to RT. With a man like this a $500 dollar leopard gecko is a drop in the bucket! I'd be willing to bet his income comes from VOLUME! Not individual sales of FRU FRU'S! Did I use that term right? LOL! We all need to just take Ron for what he is. A marketer! A MASTER marketer! Axe body spray WILL NOT make you into a studd muffin! A Chrysler 300 will not make you the talk of the town. IPODS are actually a very basic MP3 player. McDonalds new Fruit salads don't make MickeyDees a healthy place to eat! Harley Davidsons,OCC,and West Coast Choppers don't make you into a rebel! Your not intellectual because you watch the Discovery Channel,TLC and the History Channel! Just my two cents!

Whoa! Monte, I'm surprised at you! Would you prefer, "We are a big mega-breeder that will say or do anything for a sale, you know, whatever it takes to pay for the kids private school tuition and our annual 2 week vacation to a tropical island. And don't ask us how we care for our geckos, we are a big mega-breeder and do not have to answer to a lowly wanna be such as yourself. PS. Shop at PetSmart!"

She took the words right of my mouth! Words that I had no clue I wanted to say!