800 GRAM FEMALE BALL PYTHON LAID 4 EGGS - Page 4 - FaunaClassifieds
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:45 AM   #31
hhmoore
Well, if you feel that something I have done in my role as moderator is questionable, or reflects poorly on this site - I suggest you address the matter in the Fauna Feedback Forum, where it belongs.
Keep in mind that, in addition to being a moderator, I am a long time member of this site. I am not prohibited from expressing my personal opinions - as long as I do so within the guidelines that everybody else has to follow. Apparently, some people have a difficult time differentiating personal comments from moderator comments -to help reduce the confusion, the moderation team has been trying to make our official comments in moderator blue(as seen a couple of times already in this thread).

Quote:
1 HATCHED a very nice lesser male
Quote:
how bad of a guy can I be if i gave away a FREE lesser
Why do you think there is anything special about giving away an animal with an obvious physical defect? Personally, I would think that the eye deformity would be a detractor, and I wouldn't have bragged about the very nice lesser male that hatched. What's wrong with the honest approach from the beginning....she laid 4 eggs, only one of which hatched - it was a nice looking lesser, but his eyes were messed up. I found him, and the mother, good homes.....rather than trying to build it up like some great act?
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:19 AM   #32
Montoya
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhmoore View Post
What's wrong with the honest approach from the beginning....she laid 4 eggs, only one of which hatched - it was a nice looking lesser, but his eyes were messed up. I found him, and the mother, good homes.....rather than trying to build it up like some great act?
Because it seems that he has found his own little niche here to get attention. He posts about controversial topics that probably never even happened to him to get people worked up.

He makes comments to provoke a desired response, sometimes he gets it and plays the victim card. This might be the one time if you ignore the problem, it may go away.
 
Old 12-23-2011, 09:28 AM   #33
Focal
Quote:
Dosent that change a little about what we know to be BREEDING SIZE!
This is probably why you are receiving negative comments. Yes, you may not have bred the snake. But it appears, to me, that you are condoning breeding at this weight. One second you said you got a very nice lesser out of it, then you mentioned later on that all the eggs were not normal and that the male was way undersized and had birth defects. I'm confused as to what you mean by this "changes a little about what we know about breeding size." This cannot have any positive contribution.

Quote:
The female did look healthy, and so did the baby
I truly doubt that. Long story short, I bred a 1200 gram female once expecting her weight to hit 1500 before she laid. She ceased eating after the first introduction. She went full term and was 1200 grams before she laid. She only laid five eggs and did NOT look healthy after she laid. I was embarrased to see a snake in that condition and she still weighed more after laying than your snake before she laid.

Of course, you also say the baby looked fine but later say he was deformed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edf01 View Post
Also, be lucky that the 800 gram girl didnt get egg bound and die. It can happen to snakes- more so with snakes that are bred too young. There are things that can indeed go wrong with breeding snakes too young- and that is why responsible people dont do it, its not that they didnt know it could be done, but chose to not do it..
I think the reason she did not become egg bound and die (and not a good reason) is becasue she probably didn't have near the fat reserves to produce healthy sized eggs. That's why he mentioned them being slim, narrow and slug like ... and they probably didn't "go bad," I suspect they were never any good.

This does change everything I know about breeding size, that there are actually people that disregard the health of the animal for benefit. Hopefully this changes everything the OP knows about breeding size having been on the dirty end of the stick and receiving four slugs and a deformed hatchling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hussler1984 View Post
HHMOORE NEEDS TO BE REEVALUATED TO SEE IF HES STILL A GOOD CANIDATE TO REPRESENT FAUNA.
Man, I am eating my foot for trying to defend your stance on these threads
 
Old 12-23-2011, 10:39 AM   #34
GREGORY J HALL
it is a flamable subject but none to get upset about in the wild do they have people seperating them & keeping them apart till they get 1500g 'NO' so it does have nothing to do with size or age if they go they go if they dont they dont,I try mine at 1100 to 1200 if they go I know it they feed real good & are 1900g by the time they lay.I know after producing over 150 babies it works some people do it different.
 
Old 12-23-2011, 10:41 AM   #35
Willow
at this point it makes no matter to me (and many many others) weather or not the OP actually bred the snake or just threw a party when she gave him unexpected eggs. The OP is irresponsible and uncaring of his poor animals. Multiple posts from him have proven that (go read his other threads if you haven't gotten a clear picture of his character yet) and until he grows up or gets out of this hobby, his poor animals will continue to suffer....that is the biggest shame of all =(
(not to mention the obvious enjoyment he gets from trolling about it all)
 
Old 12-23-2011, 10:47 AM   #36
hhmoore
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREGORY J HALL View Post
so it does have nothing to do with size or age if they go they go if they dont they dont,
How do you figure it has nothing to do with size or age? Do you not think there are some minimums below which they cannot be successfully bred?
 
Old 12-23-2011, 10:53 AM   #37
Focal
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREGORY J HALL View Post
it is a flamable subject but none to get upset about in the wild do they have people seperating them & keeping them apart till they get 1500g.
Greg, I've always respected your opinion and still do, but that's were civilization comes into play. There are a lot of things that happen in the wild, that should not happen under the care of a civilized culture. Cats and dogs eat snakes but I don't let my pets mingle with my collection. Snakes can live in condensed enviornments in the wild and spread diseases freely. That's something we don't allow as breeders because it is not beneficial to the species. Darwinism is the reason they are allowed to do this in the wild. It keeps the population in check. If they were genetically engineered to wait to 1500 grams and lay 10+ egg clutches, there would probably be an over population crisis (although at this point it would probably be beneficial in over harvested areas). Some countries allow kids to do drugs at a very, very young age. I would never allow this. Just because it happens, doesn't mean it's right, but as you said, it's a flamable subject and opinions will vary
 
Old 12-23-2011, 11:05 AM   #38
Randy F
First off, Harald and I have already had a disagreement. Now with that said, even as personal as I take my character, I am a man and can take criticism. How long he has been here is irrelevant in my book. Now have you read his post? He is VERY (and if I could bold it and underline I would) smart and educated on the topics of this forum. That is what is needed out of a moderator. Wether he personally care for you or not, I am very sure he will defend your stance if it is CORRECT. Someone that is going to make sure things are right here. I dont care what race or sex the president is, if he beat me up as a kid or slept with my girlfriend........I can dislike him (not on race or sex), but if he turns this country around, creates jobs, and fixes the problems.....he is the man for the job.

now on to the snake......seeing the condition of the baby, it is no different than a premature human baby. Seeing the weight of both mom and baby I am surprised either lived. Just because they are snakes does not mean they do not suffer. Ever have a snake bitten by a rat? They bleed and hurt. 800 grams is almost half what a minimal weight for a female to try and breed. Thats more like a 8 or 9 year old girl having a baby. I sometimes see how collapsed some of my big girls are, and weak after laying. I personally check on them a lot more and get so excited when they are back on feed. I get excited about the babies as they are close to hatching, but caring for mom the whole time. Even some people who breed for money look at it as what size of clutch they will get. I think thats a poor way to decide, but it saves them breeding an animal too small that it will hurt her. You have to look at complications even in healthy births let alone high risk births. There were so many tears here last night because one of our bunnies died after giving birth. I ran down to my buddies pet store to get stuff to nurse the babies. My buddy who I sell the babies to for $30 and he sells for $90 (Netherland dwarfs) not only cared less about not getting anymore babies from us, but gave me another heat lamp, $20 of formula, and bottles for free knowing my son was home balling. I am actually surprised that this thread did not end up in hell so people could be more graphic. Wether your breeding or not, adopting or donating, you have a responsibility to these animals. If I received a snake from anywhere that did not eat for as long as a pregnant ball would not, I would find out why. I must admit that if I received a ball so small I would check for sex, but not palpate for eggs. BUT, did she never lay on the hot side and build a nest? Part of being responsible for these animals is seeing SIGNS something is not right and taking them to a vet. Thats where it starts from, these are not teenage girls that wear different clothing and choose how they sit. There HAD to be signs that something was not right here.

lastly.....if people are questioning things really happening to you or you just trying to instigate things, attach pictures. I must say, you have had more things happen to you than everyone I know combined. If you are having all these problems, maybe you should choose not to breed snakes. If you are just trying to get a rise out of people for personal enjoyment......post in hell and you will get better kicks.
 
Old 12-23-2011, 11:12 AM   #39
Shadera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montoya View Post
Because it seems that he has found his own little niche here to get attention. He posts about controversial topics that probably never even happened to him to get people worked up.

He makes comments to provoke a desired response, sometimes he gets it and plays the victim card. This might be the one time if you ignore the problem, it may go away.
He's always been a time waster.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=227457

But back to the topic at hand. I'd never consider putting a male with a female of that size. If that's all the bigger she was at at least a couple years of age with some good feeding, I'd either rehome her as a pet only, or she'd be put down for failure to thrive. Preferably the first of course.

Ideally, I want my girls to be at least 1500 grams and two years old before pairing them. I also want them to have a certain body condition "look" that's difficult to describe. Not too fat, but certainly not too thin either with good muscle tone. Just because they might be big enough at 18 months to handle it, doesn't always mean they are mature enough. My personal opinion of course, and the way I view things. But even if they have the age, if they don't have the weight they don't get paired either. Ex: I purchased a proven breeder animal earlier this year that came to me seriously underweight. Though she's several years old, she's going to have a couple years off to bulk up to catch up with her length. It's about her health, more than it's about my desire to produce babies or line my pockets.

Again, one personal opinion in a sea of different opinions.
 
Old 12-23-2011, 11:25 AM   #40
GREGORY J HALL
I knew I shouldnt have joined this coversation but I did,I personally dont breed under 1200g,but yes in the wild nature has a way to survive things do happen that shouldnt I believe things evolve because of these mistakes. Im just a basement hobbiest by fare no expert at all or claim to be.I see what works & go from there.But dont take me wrong either I have oppinions but dont mean im right,the big boys in the hobbie can answer those ??
 

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