Policy change for FaunaClassifieds - IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!

Today was an unusual day.

I had two quotes running through my mind, one from an email an acquaintance sent me, and another from someone posting here on the BOI. Let me quote them here for you to read:

I am a little concerned with the unethical and unprofessional manner in which an issue has been handled by a site I have been visiting for years now. The issue, is the childish and non-adult manner in the situation between Jeff Barringer and Serpenco. This has really gotten sad. As people we are suppose to be above all things (sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will NEVER hurt me). As businesses we have to be. Actions speak louder than words and I am seeing some very bad actions in the way this has been handled by both parties. I am supporter of both parties but if things continue as they are I will have to go with party that 'Acts' with a bit of professionality. This is a business and one of the top ones at that. It should be above and beyond acts of childishness and or personal self-interest in all areas. This needs to washed down the drain and completely forgotten.
Sincerly Greg Wiens

And the next:

A few years back I used my traveling to herp shows in many different states as a way to get people to sign up for a non profit corporation that I filed here in Michigan to fight anti herp legislation. I did not get enough support and I let it die after a year. I got tons of people willing to support petitions, etc., but not to fund projects, legal funds, etc..

I don't have any desire to do that again, but I do have some thoughts. Would you register your name and address info/email/etc with me if I were to compile a database of herpers to be used nationwide to help fight legislation? The names/info would not be for sale and would only be for use if needed.

I was thinking, PIJAC only sends out info to paying members and only looks for support from members. What if I could be there to supply them with a list of people that would support their petitions in whatever state the fight is in. That would instantly strengthen their backing and keep you informed on your state.

If I did it this way it would not be so much work or money that I couldn't handle it without the occasional small donations for printing and mailing costs. I would just have people either mail or email me their info and I would basically archive it, stored away for when it would be needed.

Give me your thoughts on this. I think it may be worth doing. I talk to thousands of people each year about reptiles. It may be much easier to gather support than most think currently. Even a few thousand people registered would make a huge difference instead of somebody having to go out with a clipboard and start from scratch.

Please don't give me thoughts on how to make it more work or more expensive as I have no use for more work or less money. Thanks guys. Evan Stahl

These two quotes were two sides of the same coin spinning in my head all day. It took until later this evening for them to spin fast enough to become a single idea that I could finally grab a handle on and one that I feel is in due time.

Evan is talking about cohesion in our industry so we have numbers on our side against legislation that could sink us all if we are not united. And Greg so rightfully has pointed out that there is a responsibility in the hands of the people whom run sites such as mine and Jeff's to act professional and lead by example. There are an awful lot of new people coming into this industry on a daily basis and they look to these sites as examples of what they are getting into. How can we expect or ask people on our sites to act in a mature, responsible, professional manner if we cannot act that way ourselves?

This feud between Jeff Barringer and myself has to end. It has reached the point where I am talking with attorneys and he probably is as well. Both sides can certainly gather up an armload full of evidence, character witnesses, and legal opinions that would know no bounds. And what would be the result? Figuratively, blood would be spilled on both sides, and fat lawyers all around.

This would have a tremendous potential to put a fracture in our entire industry as people chose sides and then dug in with their opinions. Obviously, this is an emotion-charged situation which will have no middle ground until someone just takes a hard look around at the lateral damage being thrown about and takes a step towards the middle.

Recently I have heard both camps speak of boycotts. Are we all making ends meet so well with this economy that we can snub our noses at someone simply because they like one site rather than the other? What foolishness!

So I am taking the first step. This has to end. It's not about winning, or who is right and who is wrong. It's about putting this all behind us and getting on with what this should be all about. Our animals, our hobbies, our interests, and our businesses.

I will swallow my pride and admit that I let it go on too long and went too far. I could have let this pass into the past, but have obviously been a burr in the saddle. When I should have stepped back and taken a hard look at what is going on on my site and known when to say "enough", I set myself in concrete saying this is MY site and bugger off.

I came real close to calling Jeff on the phone tonight to talk this over, but my fear was that the phone conversation might go south, and things would be no better or even worse than before. In such a case, we would both be back in our encampments and nothing would likely bring a resolution closer again.

So I chose, instead, to post this here, to display publicly that I am tired of this and embarrassed that I have played my part in this juvenile and petty behavior. What Jeff thinks or does is immaterial to the path I am taking. I am just doing my part in ending this.

So I am backing down. Publicly and humbly.

Effective immediately, this site is NOT to be used for the discussion of what other web sites may or may not do. Or what the owners of other sites may or may not think or act. This site was intended from the beginning, and specifically the BOI, to help people reach resolutions to problems concerning their business dealings with other people buying, selling and trading their animals. I am now pulling that back into the track where it belongs.

I will be removing the Web Wars forum and all of the posts made within that section. And I will also be searching for any other posts of that nature that may be anywhere on my sites and removing them as well. Those types of discussions are no longer acceptable fare here. And this does not just mean those in relation to kingsnake.com. ALL other websites and their policies and actions are outside the focus and off the radar of this site completely from here on out.

I do not expect this to mend the rift, nor am I asking that it do that. All I am saying is that I am laying down my armament and putting my efforts into more constructive and worthwhile endeavors. This site was designed to help people from the beginning. On it's current path, I do not believe that this is true any longer.

To all of you that saw me making a fool of myself, yet never told me, I think you for your kindness. Perhaps your belief I would come to my senses eventually was well founded after all.

My apologies to all.

Rich Z.

Rich,
I applaud you for taking such a righteous step forward. Hopefully Jeff will read this thread and you guys can settle your differences of opinion and make amends.

Both of your sites are equally important to seasoned and new enthusiasts alike and the info found on both of your sites is priceless.

Rich,

I too, think you made the right decision here. I personally have been avoiding reading anything about the "arguement" going on between you and Jeff. I didn't want to be in a position to have to "take sides."

Hopefully, you and Jeff will be able to settle your differences. If not, then I honestly hope you can "agree to disagree" and leave it at that.

You get an "A" for effort Rich and for being so 'humble'
A hatchet is a hard thing to burry and so is pride, I hope the rift mends

That is wonderful and great.

I had this same Idea a month ago.

So I sent a letter to Joe P. Jeff B. And Mario S. a month or so ago.
I basically stated lets let by gones be by gones agree to disagree.
I wanna be a business someday and would like to get this negative aura of bulldog off of me. I want the reptile community to be as one.
Of course I was only speaking of myself and them. I could not speak for anyone. I was getting tired of all the nastiness from everyone including myself. Specially myself.

Well I reregistered with KS. The new name is not banned. but my old name still is. But I guess it is a step in the right direction. It is not too hard to figure out who RitchieAnul is.

I registered with Joe P's site. The new name is not banned. The old name...whatever that was... The ban was taken off a long time ago. Months ago.

As Far as Mario's site. I can't even see it. And he still comes here to cause trouble and talk ch!t. But I am willing to try again.


Okay, Mario "supposedly" works with one of the good guys here. A guy I trust. So you know who you are. Tell Mario to let bygons be bygons. Tell him I will not talk about his site. He does not talk about this one. Tell him we can start treating each other Profesionally. We can just be business like. We do not have to be sociable. But we can at least be amicable (or is the word I am looking for civil)

Thanks very much Rich. I have been thinking about calling Jeff B. for months now but was worried that my anger would get the better of me. He called a friend of mine who is a show promoter last winter and told him that he was not going to attend his show unless he could guarentee his safety as he felt that I was going to attack him. Sometimes I can be a real a**hole and I know that. Did Jeff treat me poorly and unfairly, yes he did. Should I have just shut my mouth and not gotten into it, yes I should have. So I am going to call Jeff today. I miss the income from selling on his site as it is one of the best venues on the net hands down regardless of opinions. At the same time I will need access to his site if I go forward with my proposal that Rich mentioned.


I am tired of being a part of an industry where everyone has something bad to say about everyone else, some true and some not. I have been involved in several industries in my life. I still work most years for a couple weeks at the largest auto show in the world. A show where booths alone are hundreds of millions of dollars and billions of dollars are riding on display and performance. What I am trying to say, is that we are a very tiny little insignificant little industry that nobody in government cares about or has any respect for. I have decided to pull back from being a dealer and become much more of a breeder again so that I have more control over my time and work. I have a fantastic partner and a longterm plan to be in this industry. I have put in over 15 years and plan for much more. So I will do what I can as an individual to bring together what we do have to work with and use it to it's fullest extent to prevent us from becoming extinct through legislation. If you ignore our problems, they will go away, along with our rights.

Evan Stahl

Rich, I believe the next place we will both be at the same time is the Tinley Park show in October, if you are attending this year. If you have the time, I would like to buy you and your wife dinner and shake your hand again. Evan

Okay... I was at home and the alram clock rang telling me it is time to go to work.

This whole thing is like a civil war. And that is not good. (sometimes maybe necessarry but not good.... more on that later)

Civil War. we are all one nation United
This thing. We are all United under our common interest.
Civil war fought because of different beliefs and where people lived.
This thing fought because of people's different beliefs and where their loyalties lay.
Civil war a lot of blood shed on both sides.
This thing. Money is shed by both sides.
Civil war. Brothers against brothers. Friends against firends.
This thing. Brothers against brothers. Friends against friends.
Civil War. Not one side won. both only won when they joined and became one nation.
This thing. Not one side will win. both will only win when the are joined or at least at peace.

Just like the civil war. it was necessarry to fight and get their anger away. it was not until after that we truly became a stronger nation.
This thing.....once everyone's anger subsides....it is not until we all make piece that we can truly become one great Hobby.

I hope I made sense. I am having trouble putting words together this morning. My memory is acting funny. i am forgetting all sorts of words. I might have to go home and call it a day

I am impressed and happy to see this writeup of yours. I too had been upset with JeffB blocking your name on his site and understood at first about your not being happy about it, but I soon became alarmed at the heated nature of this 'war' and how fast it was esculating. It takes a lot of courage to pull back, humble oneself and admit that you let things get way out of hand. I show dogs (and have some champions) and one thing I don't care for about the dog show scene is the back stabing and jealousy that lies under the surface in a lot of it. One thing I enjoyed about this hobby of my corn snakes was that everyone was there to help everyone and enjoy the hobby together. Thanks for bringing this back into that focus.
I just hope that Jeff will come to this same conclussion and everyone can get on with enjoying the hobby/business of herping.

Thanks,
Dianne Bolognani

Couldn't find it...

Anyways, it's good to start over with everything, BUT it also would have been nice to have a short amount of time to capture all the information that is now gone.....as some of the info may be pertinant to some.

Are the posts eliminated completely or do you have an archive that will allow people to get the info that was on certain posts?

What about the posts on the BOI that have a combination of web site info AND on a person?
Gonna delete those posts as well?

If so, then that seems to go against what you have always avoided in the past. Which is to never delete anything of importance in order to make people aware of an issue no matter how big or small.

Should we change the name of the BOI then?
Maybe to 'Board of really great people' seeing how the majority of the people good and bad, on the BOI are on the WEB.
(Meaning - they most likely have sites too)

To speak bad of them is to also speak bad of everything about them on the web, especially their sites, usually since telling people to avoid person X in business also is saying avoid their site SINCE it is where they do business.

I for one think you jumped the gun a little too quickly, especially with the deletions.(I maybe wrong on deletions, have to wait for an answer...)

The BOI will still be the BOI.

The only thing it will not have is hey this website did this . That website did that.
It will still be a place to post business dealings wtih people. But the site stuff will not be here. there is a diference between posting about people and posting about a certain site. yes I know everyone has sites. I have two..maybe making a third and fourth. But those sites really have nothing to do with how i do business.

No what I mean? okay i will stop posting until I can give my mind a rest. I am really having a hard tie thiking of words and putting them together this morning.

this message alone has taken 8 minutes to type. that is WAAAAYY to werird